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RE: What happens when you die?
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John O.
Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany
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 RE: What happens when you die? (in reply to cathulu)
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I have a weird way of dealing with this question. When we die, the lights go out. It's over. No thoughts, no feelings, no conscience, nothing.
Sounds depressing? I find it comforting and very motivating.
Heaven and hell are right here, it all depends how we live and see life. Life isn't a "test" to prove if you're good or bad, it's a chance to experience something. To quote a famous comedian:
"The world is like a ride in an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it you think it's real, because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round, and it has thrills and chills and is very brightly colored, and it's very loud. And it's fun, for a while."
I can change it or get off any time I wish. That to me is comforting. Knowing that this is all I have and I can do with it what I want, being in the driver's seat, is very motivating.
Some philosophy from a typical worry wart... 
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Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things
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Date May 5 2009 23:34:56
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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RE: What happens when you die? (in reply to John O.)
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quote:
I have a weird way of dealing with this question. When we die, the lights go out. It's over. No thoughts, no feelings, no conscience, nothing.
I know...
this is just my opinion but...some people dont like or cant comprahend that, because they never ever experience it...until u die...so they invented religion to make themselfs feel better, motivate people to do the right thing...etc "
while youre alive whatever you do, sleep, faint , comma ? (dont know much about that one)...whatever state.. your brain is active on some level..so to just sees to exist is unimaginable, to all of us...
I am as open minded as the next guy but when i am asked to ignore reason, facts on unclear , vague answers, answers that lead nowhere.. i have problems...
isnt it funny how god is great god is fair until sometimes hes not fair, hes vengeful and punishes...sometimes not even crimes just simple ignorance, sometimes innocent people, litlle children (then conviniantly ..he has a plan...they say)
they say he created man but gave him free will...how is that possible..how does someone give something he didnt create ? where did that come from ? imported from another god ? if everything was created ...who did that and who programed it to function the way it does if not god ?
u cant design something 100 % and claim u have nothing to do with the way it functions..and punish its behaviour..nothing about that is fair or forghiving...expecially since you are god and know what he is going to do with it anyway
there are those that need to be told what to do...constantly look up for someone to lead em..
always perfect candidates to join cults, be brainwashed, become martyres etc..the most dangrous types of people are those convinced beyond any resonable doubt that they are right..
EDIT
ps...this is one of those times id love to be wrong because..well heaven does sound nice.so if you are religious dont get upset with me..i am pulling for you !! i am just not getting convinced 
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Date May 5 2009 23:42:50
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: What happens when you die? (in reply to duwen)
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quote:
I have a deadly feeling that this place is full of 'plastic flamencos' who are sucking the soul/spirit/duende from real flamenco!!
duwen,
Since you are so deeply interested in Flamenco, can I ask...
How many Flamenco CDs or recordings have you got in your collection?
Which albums, tracks or artists do you like most?
What guitar techniques.. like rasgueado, alzapua etc are you practising ATM?
How is your understanding of "compás" coming along?
It seems to me that you already know what "real" Flamenco is, based on the memories of a record you heard 40 years ago ....enough knowledge anyway to put us all in our places and look down upon us for being "plastic" flamencos.
I wrote my post because I felt embarrassed for you, constantly writing your profound and personal messages about mystical and chemically enhanced experiences to an audience which generally finds it more entertaining than educational or informative or anything at all to do with the learning or understanding of playing Flamenco music, which is the intended main purpose of this Forum.
IMO, your posts would be just as relevant to the groups on a computing forum, jazz forum, gardening forum, theoretical physics forum or cooking forum.
I personally don't have any views on drugs...take 'em if you want and if you think they are helping you find some sort of positive meaning to your life, then great, but please don't promote/advise the use of so called "sacred" hallucinogens to others here as some sort of practical aid to understanding or learning Flamenco guitar.
My own "profound" advice to anyone wishing to learn Flamenco guitar would first be to actually buy a guitar.
cheers,
Ron
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Date May 6 2009 1:30:02
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at_leo_87
Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A
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RE: What happens when you die? (in reply to andresito)
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quote:
As another consequence, you'll probably be able to sell those guitars you did manage to buy (unless you specified in your will you want to be buried with them).
i'll be buried with all my stuff like an egyptian pharaoh. mine mine mine!
and yes, drugs are bad. mmmmmkay??? it's a shortcut to enlightenment, duende, bliss, salvation, nirvana, etc. if it even gets you there. take the long road and enjoy the scenery. but whatever, you make your own life choices. respect!
lets get high on life, mmmmmkay?
quote:
for when you see a gangster's mother on the news saying their dead 'boy' was an angel
thug angel homie!
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Date May 6 2009 6:01:45
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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RE: What happens when you die? (in reply to duwen)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: duwen
Look flamencos. You are musicians and the essence of what you do and surely want to do, especially with playing flamenco is feel ...?
No need for "...?". What a(ny) musician wants to do is to feel. Feeling is direct, in the music in the lyrics, without foreplay. No need for mushrooms, or poems, or to look up what happened 1000 years ago. At least not for me.
Dont get me wrong, i think you like flamenco. But you also like Blues, and maybe Jazz and hindu music? Maybe also classical music, which is not materialistic? ;)
Your interest is more theoretical, or academical. Its actually not the music itself that grabs you, but the philosophical talk that is done around it (for example flamenco, but also blues). You seem to have found some parallels to your own social theories, hence you jump on the flamenco train. But it could be any other music. Am i right?
Yes flamencos are mostly materialistic people. They "just do it", without thinking "do i have the right to play flamenco?" or "is my chakra in the right balance to do flamenco now?"
So i would say, dont get so annoyed when people dont react on your comments. Different interests.
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Date May 6 2009 9:54:47
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cathulu
Posts: 950
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan
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RE: What happens when you die? (in reply to val)
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Val, wasn't there a photo recently of you and your buddies drunk or on the way to insobriety? You were dancing if I recall.
So what is that? You took alcohol to enhance your experience. Alcohol is one of the most destructive drugs out there.
Funny how we all conveniently forget about that...
Myself, I have tried a couple of different drug types but I still like alcohol the best. I can regulate it and have a nice glass of wine or two and stop - or not. I don't like public use of Marijuana because I don't like to smell it - but if it was odourless I am not sure what I would feel about its use in public. I probably would want it restricted to a beer tent type scenario.
I should add the worst thing about drugs other than addiction which is a mental health issue imho, is the gangsters and violence that surround it. We have had some problems around that here in Vancouver. I am not sure about legalization but that may be the only way. Look at the prohibition era and how bad that was.
I don't want my son abusing drugs of any kind, and minimizing his exposure to all of the different drug types. I hope I am a decent role model.
Regarding God, I am nominally a Christian. I don't believe in the God in the bible. But, I think we can feel God hence we try and right about it and explain it. All the religions are attempts at that and bring in human baggage that results in control and conflict.
The God in the bible and ceremonies around him and his son etc create comfort and a living connection to the past, and our rituals both religious and secular are very important to our lives whether we care to acknowledge that or not. That is true for the other Abrahamic religions, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddists etc etc
It is hard not to believe in some kind of creator, there was something before the big bang. Do we have souls? who knows. We are part of the universe though. Our activities are flowing through the universe. It seems the current thought is the universe will slowly die and chill out, a universe of maximum entropy. Perhaps, perhaps not. Our understanding is still so nascent. I suspect we will never know. I like the concept of a universe that returns and restores itself to a new beginning.
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Date May 6 2009 10:38:48
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duwen
Posts: 68
Joined: Mar. 25 2009
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RE: What happens when you die? (in reply to val)
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quote:
Spot on.
duwen: I have no problem with people having different ideas about life and after all, you did post off-topic, but its the underlying message that you bring that I find objectionable - that it's OK, and indeed, beneficial to get off your head.
(BEFORE I GO ON, AND I PUT THIS IN CAPS SO YOU DO NOT MISS IT? IT WAS NOT ME WHO BROUGHT UP SACRED MUSHROOMS IN THIS THREAD. IT WAS A POSTER TRYING TO GET A CHEAP LAUGH AT MY EXPENSE BY CLAIMING IWAS 'OFF MY HEAD ON MUSHROOMS' OK?)
'Get off your head' is the abuse of psychedelics, of course. it is disrespect . What is better, someone who talks about psychedelics as sacred medicine to be used with the deepest respect or someone who who talks about them as a means to 'get off their heads'?
I mentioned them in the 'What is Flamenco?' thread, I created, because of their connection with the Mazatec term 'duendes' which correlates with the gypsy Flamenco term 'duende'. Anyone with any life, spirit, interest, natural inquisitiveness, life , and real flamenco would not scream for censorship!
quote:
I have an enormous problem with ideas that promote drug use as a route to gaining a greater meaning to life and to what I consider to be UNreal experiences. You want to go that way, fine, but keep it to yourself or post where your ideas are welcome.
let me translate what you just said, as I experience it: My philosophy is scientific materialism.
I am very against sacred medicine, that can involve non-ordinary experience--which my philosophy judges to be 'unreal', I do not promote any debate about it, for me, or others in this forum even in the off topic section.
quote:
I've seen at close hand the devastating effects drug use can have, and the huge burden placed on society dealing with these effects. I'm in full agreement with everything Ron said.
With respect, you are speaking from complete ignore-ance concerning the subject you wish to ban.
For if you knew the potential of sacred medicines you'd know their very powerful help for all manner of destructive habits, including 'hard drug' habits. hence the term 'sacred medicine'
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Date May 6 2009 10:46:30
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duwen
Posts: 68
Joined: Mar. 25 2009
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RE: What happens when you die? (in reply to XXX)
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quote:
No need for "...?". What a(ny) musician wants to do is to feel. Feeling is direct, in the music in the lyrics, without foreplay. No need for mushrooms, or poems, or to look up what happened 1000 years ago. At least not for me.
Dont get me wrong, i think you like flamenco. But you also like Blues, and maybe Jazz and hindu music? Maybe also classical music, which is not materialistic? ;)
Your interest is more theoretical, or academical. Its actually not the music itself that grabs you, but the philosophical talk that is done around it (for example flamenco, but also blues). You seem to have found some parallels to your own social theories, hence you jump on the flamenco train. But it could be any other music. Am i right?
Oh you are SO wrong lol
Listen. One does not have to be able to 'play flamenco' to feel flamenco. Are we agreed? Nor jazz, Blues, gnawa...etc. yes? And I can promise you I am not an acamadician with round glasses with a big book on flamenco, hahaha. I LOVE flamenco. It moves me to the bowels...when it is good. But I must say. IF I knew that someone playing it was of the mindset of some here who have attacked me, this would kill my spirit listening. because for me the artist has to feel. Does this make sense to you?
quote:
Yes flamencos are mostly materialistic people. They "just do it", without thinking "do i have the right to play flamenco?" or "is my chakra in the right balance to do flamenco now?"
So i would say, dont get so annoyed when people dont react on your comments. Different interests.
Well OK, of course. I wouldn't expect all flamencos to know about Mazatec term duendes, or sacred mushrooms etc, but i WOULD expect a twinkle in their eye and an interest in what i wanted to share...and then they would say, eg., 'listen to this!...and play with duende . I would love that 
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Date May 6 2009 10:55:25
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duwen
Posts: 68
Joined: Mar. 25 2009
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RE: What happens when you die? (in reply to cathulu)
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quote:
Sacred medicines is bogus to me - why the label? You make a distinction between use, non-ordinary experience compared to something else which you do not say - ordinary use? That is disingenuous... just another rationalization.
You do not listen, which is very not good for a musician!
I can dig there that you do not agree with 'sacred medicine' , 'psychedelics' you can handle, but not 'sacred' right? Well many indigenous people do call plants that are believed to be 'Plant Teachers' that. So when you attack me for using that term you also attack many indigenous people also. You dismiss their tradition.
I have also tried to explain why it is sacred. Would you for example call music sacred when it moves you? Say flamenco? Whatabout a sunset? A view. A feeling you might get when you are over-awed...........? I cant make you feel sacred man, but I know it!
And you assume I deify the experience over ordinary day to day life. That is your assumption as nowhere have I said this. I rather see the sacred and ordinary reality as a continuum.
quote:
I doubt mental health issues with out of control drug use can be solved by sacred medicines! More drugs is not the answer in my opinion - that is the worst of the Pharma industry in the nut shell. So tell me, give me an example of one sacred medicine?
Right. We agree about the pharma industry! I go further and tell you that mental illness is a myth. That there is a scam whereby people are labelled with phony names of supposed biological illnesses where there are in fact no medical science to prove it. There IS many kinds of distress yes, but not biologically caused.
A big reason is the war on sacred medicine. Bascially it is a war on consciousness. On our freedom to explore our soul--the source of healing. All that is suppressed by the controlling state, and the people here who try and stamp down on intelligent debate through fear or whatever excacerbate this fear in the community. I expect more from artists! I am an artist by the way.
I dont dig your last sentence?
quote:
Just admit you like to use / abuse drugs. That is so much easier than all the gobbley gook. And when you can admit that, don't bother telling us how great it is...
Why should I admit something totally false to please your distorted view which has been manipulated by the war on drugs propaganda?
The last time I partook of sacred mushrooms was three years ago. I gave up smoking cannabis over two years ago, and rarely drink alcohol.
I drink mainly water, and try and eat organic food, and get good excercise.
So before you blindly judge people, try politely asking them?
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Date May 6 2009 14:16:02
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