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Intro and Query, on free form flamenco.
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gj Michelob
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
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 Intro and Query, on free form flamenco.
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I hesitantly enter this forum because I know it gathers dedicated and professional Flamencos. I recognize Ricardo, Jim Opfer and Todd (good morning Gentlemen), whose videos on youtube I treasure; I am sure there are many others here I will learn to equally respect.
I am only an amateur, and have focused on Flamenco for the last two years, obsessively, but relegating my practice to one or two hours a day as my profession may allow.
I love Amigo’s and Tomatito’s work, but I really only enjoy (and listen to) their few solos, with no accompaniment whatsoever.
And here is my question, with a bit of trepidation: I compose the music I play. To a layman’s ears my music apparently is pleasing and it is “flamenco”. While the first reaction is purely subjective, the latter is out of misconception. My solos’ scales, golpes, rasqueos, the mood and color, the technique or the progression of starting in B- and ending in F sharp, all conjure a perception that my compositions are Flamenco.
To the traditionalist, they are not, as they follow none of the prescribed compas and palos, of say Solea or Buleria. I see other musicians publishing music they (even more) unfairly but confidently define as Flamenco.
Can one (I, in this case) call a composition flamenco even though the traditional rules and restrictions haven’t been strictly observed? Is there such a thing as "Free Form Flamenco"?
I am planning to record my few solos and possibly compile them into a CD which I intend to name “serenades for unaccompanied flamenco guitar”. The Serenade is a liberal form of composition, and both the guitar and technique are undoubtedly Flamenco. However, I respect how jealously fundamentalists of Flamenco guard its traditions and purity…. any criticism or advice?
Thank you.
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Date Nov. 8 2008 5:34:36
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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RE: Intro and Query, on free form fl... (in reply to gj Michelob)
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Hi :-)
welcome to the forum and i respect your courage..and whatever i say, i want you to know that it dosent bother me either way.I am not a flamenco fundimentalist  .for all i care anyone can use whatever name they want, it is just a name afer all..I sometimes even listen to flamenco rap  ... but...I am going to talk frankly...
Ultimateley u can do whatever u like ofcourse and theres a million other commercial cds made outside Spain that use the word flamenco for they'r album names to tap into that market but besides using a nylon string guitar it has nothing in common with flamenco....i have a diff student every 3 weeks that starts lessons and quits 2 weeks later because its not what he expected cause he purchased one of this cds...
flamenco is not just the technique used (thats just the tools) its the form..the compas, the meaning of that palo its not brain surgery but its not as simple as playing a nylon string guitar either, its a tradition and an art, .....u could have the serenades on the cd and still call it a flamenco cd but u would have to have atlist 2 or 3 flamenco forms in there to prove that this is not you beeing misinformed about flamenco but you chosing to do those serenades....many flamencos do freeforms but they all do it after having done the flamenco palos...theres a difference between having done flamenco and experimenting and not ever having done flamenco and going straight to the experimenting...
its not necesarely a bad thing but its just not called flamenco
the other thing is ...u dont need a label to share something u belive its worth listening to...if you like your music and think it has something to offer, u dont need to go trough this, theres a million brilliant names out there..
btw...even if your cd was 100% flamenco...i wouldnt recomend using the word "flamenco" in the title...dosent say anything..sounds like the album has nothing in peticular to say..it sounds trivial and like 1000 others before (also its first give away that its not spanish)...when u wanna sell something u wana sell a story...a feeling...give people the idea thats something different...something thats never been done before..something that they have to hear....
You made the album because u have something to say ...not just because u can ..
i guess its up to you..also depends on your motivations..
for example what are you looking to achive with this tread ? are you looking to be told that its ok ? i dont care, no skin of my back ..sure its ok  but u and i both know that noone in flamenco will respect this work as flamenco on the contrary..
if u call it something honest they are more likely to respect the work and wont even dismis it after the first few secs when they realize its not what it says it it.
flamenco is a language...is like writting something in english and saying on the cover that u are writting it in rusian...everybody that speaks rusian knows its not true and will probably not have the highest level of respect for it and not give it the atention it deserves because of it because they would have felled misleaded
my advice is, u dont need it, u dont need to label it..if u like flamenco ...study it learn it etc.. if u dont thats cool too..do the other thing ..
but dont make it that u discredit yourself and integrity for the sake of labeling your music for ignorant people, let the music speak for itself....if u got something to say...u dont need trivial labels
I hope none of this offends u amigo..i am not looking to offend you i just gave u a honest opinion of what i think u dont need...and again personaly i dont care what u call it...but i said what i said for your own sake...
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Date Nov. 8 2008 6:21:27
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gj Michelob
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
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RE: Intro and Query, on free form fl... (in reply to gj Michelob)
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Thank you so much, Florian, Stu and Ricardo (hi..).
Not only am I not offended, I am so pleased by your respective advice.
The idea of “toque libre” is certainly an alluring grab-all bag, and it had crossed my mind. But I appreciate that it is the nature of my work as whole that ultimately defines my music. There Florian has a brilliant point by suggesting that if anchored to a few traditional forms, the additional experimenting could enjoy leave of form. Yet, I cannot disagree that stubbornly forcing a label upon undefined music may be a futile and counterproductive exercise.
The irony is that, save for minor exceptions, my music sounds, feels, speaks… flamenco. Perhaps the departure from purity is to be found in the lyrically melodious themes, I carry form classical music (I started out with classical guitar, then veered onto the shores of blues and country, ended up plying cello, to purge my sins… and after a ten year long break, two years ago, I discovered Vicente Amigo)
Ultimately, I am afraid I would mislead the listener whether I call it Flamenco or not..... and there Ricardo affords a scholastic way-out: Spanish Guitar, Flamenco Influence.
this site hosts one of my serenades (in MP3 and 4 format), really a one take, home recording, first draft. But hopefully will give you an idea of what I am referring to.
www.dynastygallery.com/corrado
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Date Nov. 8 2008 7:09:59
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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RE: Intro and Query, on free form fl... (in reply to gj Michelob)
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You play guitar very well, but this is not really Flamenco guitar, nor is it Tarantas or Granainas or anything.
I agree with Ricardo that "Flamenco Influenced Spanish Guitar" would be the best description and would save you a lot of grief from Flamenco aficionados.
It's not snobbery or anything amigo, it's just that Flamenco is not "anything goes" music, there are a lot of structures and substructures even within the free form stuff.
It's a bit like buying a Sitar and working out a lot of nice Indian-sounding stuff, then calling it a "Raga".
Which of course, it is not, even if it sounds that way to your ears and experience with Indian music.
As I said, it's nice guitar playing, you're a good guitar player.
cheers,
Ron
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Date Nov. 8 2008 7:56:33
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gj Michelob
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
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RE: Intro and Query, on free form fl... (in reply to gj Michelob)
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Inexorably, already am… addicted. Thanx Florian for your kind welcome, It’s been very nice making your acquaintance.
Anders: you are absolutely right, although I do not know yet how to experience that sense of emptiness you describe. I have been looking for a teacher, willing to spend a few hours a month with me when I am in New York, which is a random and short amount of time as I am always on a plane otherwise.
If anyone is in NYC and wishes to afford this beginner flexibly scheduled lessons on Flamenco, please stand up and be recognized.
Also, and somehow off topic, if anyone is interested in transcribing my music, for a fee that is, I am interested.
ciao
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 8 2008 9:50:38
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