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RE: RE: Norman Kliman.......... DIFFERENT THREAD
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Florian
Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia
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 RE: RE: Norman Kliman.......... DIFF...
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there you go, not hijacking your thread anymore, this is my thread and i can sidetrack as much as i want .
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The day I see one single guitarist, singer or dancer from outside the ambiente doing something in flamenco that seems minimally authentic or worthwhile, then I will scratch my head and remember your words. quote:
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If you want to do flamenco, seek out the people who do it the way you like it, and soak it up. There may be short-cuts, but I haven't found any.
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The only reason why I'm reading throught this crap is because I'm drunk wide awake unable to play while my wife is already asleep.
All respect for her experience and knowledge but none for her choice of words. You'll learn flamenco nowhere better than in Spain. I think that's what was meant, and it's very true. Anyone ****ed at ME now?
with all the respect to you if she said this i and others wouldnt have reacted the way we did, we would have probably said ..."Yeah that's right, the whole world knows that'.
but she is a writter, i am sure she can express just what she wants, sure if she wanted to say that would have found a way to say just that, without needing your help to clarifie it.
And even if the statements she made were true, you just dont say that, disrespect the whole outside Spain flamenco comunity, many people work damn hard, and love the art and are doing theyr best and working hard at slowly rasing the level.
you dont just crap allover they work and expect me to say, "yes you are right "
oh well, i ve said my piece
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Date Feb. 17 2008 16:31:59
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Ailsa
Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England
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Nature or nurture? (in reply to Florian)
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Hello everyone, well isn't this fun?!!
I'm quite interested in the whole nature/nurture thing, because I've been involved in quite a few different world musics and the same argument comes up again and again in all of them - it's not just flamenco. I've heard that if you are not black African, you can't play djembe authentically, if you weren't raised in Rio de Janeiro you can't really get the samba groove etc.etc.
I've got a bit of a problem with these sort of statements. The first is from my experience - I've met any number of Brazilians who can't hold a beat, and in Cuba, where apparently "everyone dances" I got asked to dance by the only Cuban guy who had no idea about rhythm and timing! Those people were no less Brazilian or Cuban, but they'd certainly by-passed any genetic predisposition to music. So I tend to end on the side of it being nurture, not nature.
Now if the argument is "If you grow up with a type of music all around you, you will automatically feel the rhythm/compas/whatever better" I would have to respond, "Well duuuuuhh!!"  So of course people in Spain have an advantage in flamenco, and people in Brazil for samba. Though even that is a generalisation, because in Brazil there are the 'anti-sambistas', who think that samba is crap and don't want to be seen anywhere near it!
I think perhaps what got some people's blood boiling was this from Estela:
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The day I see one single guitarist, singer or dancer from outside the ambiente doing something in flamenco that seems minimally authentic or worthwhile, then I will scratch my head and remember your words.
I think that's just a bit too strong, and does diss all the people who are working hard to be as good as they can. I bet most of us recognise we are never going to be authentic, even minimally, but I don't want to be put down about it. When I see vids of myself dancing, I can see what I am - a classically trained English dancer. I'm probably always going to look like that, but hell it's not gonna stop my trying, and when I'm on my course in Jerez in a couple of weeks authentic is where I'll be aiming.
@romerito, I like the idea of having sex in compas, I'm gonna try that later.
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Date Feb. 17 2008 20:10:21
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and its on the off topic so ...bye bye 
i am sick of getting sushed, i dont feel peticulary offencive today or yesterday, even when i first read the statement that kind of started all this, i disagreed, but i tried to keep it light and mentain a sense of houmor about it.. 
