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So, I've heard many opinions on support for 4 finger rasqueos. some say that the thumb is used for i m and a and a is used to support e. some say that the palm is used for all four (graf-martinezzzzzzzzamazingness super awesome flamenco dvd)...... i've tried both and met with varying degrees of success.... not being an expert on rasgueos I'd like to know which you all prefer. I'm really open to try any method, I'm looking to find a method that will not end up in me having to get surgery tho!
RE: support for 4 finger rasgueo (in reply to HemeolaMan)
I may not understand what you mean by 'support;' is it like extending your thumb on the face of the guitar or strings?, because I know you can also stretch out your thum and use the muscular tension to balance the hand without the hand touching the guitar, like you can stretch out a finger like the index (index bends back and forth with movement) and thumb for e a m, or eaven the pinky for when finger picking with p i m a and etc. This would be with concentrating on the use of the palm for balance as well as the finger stretches out the muscles an bones creating a kind of support. The positioning of the wrist, and arm is also important. I use different aproaches for different techniques, and I have to say it again, the use of a technique is all about phrasing. I know I may not have answered your question, because I'm not sure I know what you mean, and with that, I have to say it was worth a try, to help you with your question, in my experiance that is. Let us not forget other examples like picado, or alzapua, and etc., which are similar. Surgery will most likely not be necessary, so don't worry! Though, do experiment with what works for you; you may need a teacher to work on this with you.
RE: support for 4 finger rasgueo (in reply to HemeolaMan)
I don't understand your question either. I'm assuming your talking about a basic 4 stroke rasgueo with the e,a,m and i fingers. If this is the case, the thumb is anchored on the 6th string for "support" whether it's e,a,m,i down or a,m,i down, i up.(amii)
I found this vid of an amii example. Notice the thumb is anchored for support.
Here's an example of eami
If this is not what you were intending to asking and I have misunderstood your question, I apologize.
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: support for 4 finger rasgueo (in reply to HemeolaMan)
He means how do you launch or flick the fingers. ie the thumb or the palm or off of the side of each other. How do you "cock" your fingers in other words.
I for one never use the palm, sometimes thumb for i and m only, never a. And even still very often NOTHING is "supporting" or acting as a springboard. (iia iia for example, nothing at all for the "a" stroke, just momentum). They just move with momentum in mid air. Think about abanico, the wrist twists but the fingers just hit the strings with their own "stiffness".
I find if I want a nice snap out of the basses I flick of the thumb, or a from behind m, pinky from behind a. But sometimes you want a bright brushing sound from the trebles strings, and I dont' flick at all.
RE: support for 4 finger rasgueo (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
He means how do you launch or flick the fingers. ie the thumb or the palm or off of the side of each other. How do you "cock" your fingers in other words.
I for one never use the palm, sometimes thumb for i and m only, never a. And even still very often NOTHING is "supporting" or acting as a springboard. (iia iia for example, nothing at all for the "a" stroke, just momentum). They just move with momentum in mid air. Think about abanico, the wrist twists but the fingers just hit the strings with their own "stiffness".
Ah, gotcha. I too never use the palm. Only for my i finger. Actually, I think I use the inside of my thumb to launch the i finger. Sorry HemeolaMan, after going back and re-reading your post, I can see what your asking. IMO, "how it's done" probably will depend on what you feel most comfortable with or what works best for you. If a "properly trained" guitarist were to see me play, he'd probably think "man, this guy has the weirdest or ugliest technique".
RE: support for 4 finger rasgueo (in reply to Guest)
quote:
Watch Vicente or Moraito. Not very good looking hand position but boy can they play.
Well I can tell you with all certainty that someone watching me wouldn't be thinking of Vicente or Moraito. Vincent Price maybe but not Vincente Amigo.
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RE: support for 4 finger rasgueo (in reply to HemeolaMan)
hmmm. this is good advice. It seems the majority of flamenco technique is based on "what works for you" lol. anybody else notice that? after reading countless articles and books, and alll that stuff, I'm more confused than ever! but, I believe you fellas more than any book....after all, you guys actually play flamenco and aren't being edited by hal leonard lol. has anybody else noticed that Graf Martinez has a goofy voice? lol
RE: support for 4 finger rasgueo (in reply to HemeolaMan)
quote:
hmmm. this is good advice. It seems the majority of flamenco technique is based on "what works for you" lol. anybody else notice that? after reading countless articles and books, and alll that stuff, I'm more confused than ever!
It really depends on you, your taste and the palo you are playing. A rasguado can be played in many different ways, soft, hard, machine gun-like (clearly countable), etc. I don't think they are wrong/right or my/your way. Different types of rasguados don't sound the same.
You see guitarists use some form of rasguados more often than the other forms. It's simply because he finds them suitable most of the time but he also uses other types.
Playing 3 or 4 finger rasguado with support is another animal than without.
For instance if I want to emphasize a rasguado i play it with support, otherwise without.
RE: support for 4 finger rasgueo (in reply to HemeolaMan)
That's funny, I mean, I had no idea that you were talking about launching, and I don't usually launch, for ras, though I do launch for flicking out the fingers all at once, or in two's or threes all at once, with wrist action, instead of a finger at a time for ras; though my fingers do sometimes slap the palms for ras depending on the effect I'm trying to achieve. What I told you is a way to balance the hand. To me that and sticking the thumb on a string or the guitar face is support, but it's my english. I was really beside myself with self disgust though there is no reason to be.
But, you are right that you must do what you find comfortable, and a good teacher, will have alternate ways to do things, and make adjustments when teaching. There is no reason to get into dogma, when reading a book, unless you can make your choice from a couple of several books. Especially, also, when seeking advice. Just lip service!
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: support for 4 finger rasgueo (in reply to gato)
quote:
What I told you is a way to balance the hand. To me that and sticking the thumb on a string or the guitar face is support, but it's my english.
Actually your english was right, and the orginal use of "support" was not making much sense. At least when describing this issue. Dont' feel bad, I had to read it twice before I understood what he meant exactly.
RE: support for 4 finger rasgueo (in reply to Ricardo)
Oh I didn't feel that bad, I just didn't know what to say, so I took my guitar out on to the patio out back and played outside for an hour, the acoustics are wonderful. It sounds much better than anywhere here. I'll have to keep doing that! The guitar sounds so beautiful in those magical places. It seems to smooth over anything that happens no matter how actually small. But thanks, anyway Ricardo, and thanks for figuring out what he meant!
RE: support for 4 finger rasgueo (in reply to HemeolaMan)
yep, so no easy answers lol. I'm trying the wrist flickin thing, it's hard to do when you're goin way slow. I hope someday I will be able to use the words Machine gun to describe my rasgueos lol! and no offense to Graf-Martinez, he's my favthe flamenco metronome is how i count my days now lol. Thanks for the tips guys, sorry about the wording!
RE: support for 4 finger rasgueo (in reply to Taranto)
why thankee. I had originally considered tomatito for my avatar, but then i decided that I might be stepping on someone's toes lol. though honestly, I wasn't playin flamenco in that pic, in fact it was Sor..... waaayyyy not flamenco lol.
Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England
RE: support for 4 finger rasgueo (in reply to Taranto)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Taranto
unless the avatar pic is someone else.
I was sure it was someone else! Is that really you hemeolaman? Woah you not only have the look, you have the HAIR Do you know how many women would love to have hair like that? Me for one....
PS - those really are my legs and feet in my avatar and none of you can prove otherwise.
RE: support for 4 finger rasgueo (in reply to HemeolaMan)
that's me =). if you need proof I have more pics. It's funny how far flamenco will take you when your audience is female lol.
Alisa, i'll let you borrow my hair if you let me borrow your legs lol (had to do it, for flo lol)
Taranto, I was playing... estudio 1 I believe, maybe. one of my favorite warm-ups! I love sor, and I love villa lobos. I think I did like all sor and Villa lobos for most of my jurries so far lol..... that and I had to do some ellington tunes which I regret lol. such is the life of a music major
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RE: support for 4 finger rasgueo (in reply to HemeolaMan)
I´m planning to make some guitar different guitar videos as online workshops. 1 of them deals with different kinds rasgueo and the way I learned it. I´m currently working on it, in German language. If there´s a demand I´ll post the link and maybe will make a British version or caption into the video. Just let me know.
RE: support for 4 finger rasgueo (in reply to bernd)
yeah, I could really get some use out of that, I'm struggling with finding my own style for rasgueos. English subtitles would be great if it's not tooo much trouble =)
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Vincent Price maybe but not Vincente Amigo. 
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