Flamenco / Classical Hybrid

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

chapman_g

Posts: 227
Joined: Apr. 11 2007

Flamenco / Classical Hybrid

Especially the luthiers. Is it possible to make a flamenca negra that has a different bone for using the guitar for flamenco and then one for using the guitar as a classical. Specifiaclly if the bridge is set up favouring flamenco, could you just slap a higher bone in there to raise the height comparable to classical set ups?

_____________________________

Estudiante

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 11 2007 22:19:23

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Flamenco / Classical Hybrid (in reply to chapman_g)

Theoretically, its possible but the difference between optimum string height for a classical and flamenco are quite different, so the bone saddle would need to be quite large when converting across to the classical. This would also affect the "break angle" of the strings where they meet the bridge. It MIGHT not affect the tone, but an overly steep break angle could lead to increased string breakages.

BTW a typical Flamenco guitar bridge and a classical one are different- the flamenco bridge is shallower, due to the lower action we favour.

Jb

_____________________________

¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2007 9:37:14

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Flamenco / Classical Hybrid (in reply to chapman_g)

Hi Chapman

I´ve built 3 hybrids, doing exactly what you say, looking more for a flamenco setup with an extra bone for more classical stuff. and a bracing I would call a beefed flamenco bracing.

The guitars came out very nicely and the owners are very happy with them. They are all a bit more flamenco than classical, but serve their purpose.

One thing you have to understand though is that its a compromise and as a such you loose something. I find that the guitars serve very well as a typicall concert flamenco Negra. They are loud so they can be used for dance but a sharper sounding blanca would be better. As a classical guitar, they sound awesome for some of the typical Spanish repatoire, giving them some more dancing air. For more serious stuff, a bigger sounding typical classical guitar with less attack and more sustain will work better.

For other things, like canteautor, speedscaling, brazil, son etc. the guitars are VERY good with just the right mix of percussiveness and body.

here you have a picture of the last one

There are more photos of this guitar on my website under classicals

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2007 10:43:16

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Flamenco / Classical Hybrid (in reply to chapman_g)

Nice guitar, Anders! So does it have a Classical bridge or a Flamenco one? Or possibly a cross between the two? (high flamenco-low classical).

Jb

_____________________________

¡Si esto no está en compas, esto no es el Flamenco!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2007 11:12:15

chapman_g

Posts: 227
Joined: Apr. 11 2007

RE: Flamenco / Classical Hybrid (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Anders,
So how much does a beauty like this cost? And how long does it take? You can email directly at chapman_g@yahoo.com if you like.

_____________________________

Estudiante

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2007 12:40:02

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Flamenco / Classical Hybrid (in reply to chapman_g)

The guitar has a bridge which is 1mm higher than a standard flamenco bridge. (7mm bridge, 9mm setup at bridge and a 3,5mm setup 6th string 12th fret.)

The price is the one you see on my website. This one has a 100 euros extra, the orange French Polish with the rosette and purfling in natural. a total of 2700,- euros. It takes around 2 month incl. french polish to build a guitar like that My waiting list is short. Just a few clients, so I can finish one this autumn/early winter.

Un saludo
Anders

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2007 13:30:39

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Flamenco / Classical Hybrid (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Very interesting...and if it sounds as beautiful as it looks...wow!

quote:

As a classical guitar, they sound awesome for some of the typical Spanish repatoire, giving them some more dancing air. For more serious stuff, a bigger sounding typical classical guitar with less attack and more sustain will work better.

Seems it could be really good for lute and harpsichord music. (But maybe not for Takemitsu...)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 14 2007 17:19:26

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Flamenco / Classical Hybrid (in reply to chapman_g)

Exactly.

I like this sound very much for things like Bach partitas and Sonatas. I used to play those on violin and I like a lighter sound than the typical bigbody tons of sustain modern Classical.

It also works well for Spanish things like Albeniz, simply because this flamenco sound gives it a more Spanish Aire.

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 14 2007 18:17:13

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Flamenco / Classical Hybrid (in reply to chapman_g)

Nice guitar Anders!

The guitar that I have built for myself is a similar guitar, a hybrid but a blanca. I call it a "veranda guitar". A veranda guitar is a guitar that suits all musical styles reasonable well. The purpose for my guitar is to be handy at any moment, no matter what kind of musician visiting my house. Classic, flamenco, bossa, blues, chansons, svenska visor... anything that can use a guitar. For me that is the essence of a guitar. And I have a nice veranda too.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 14 2007 19:41:22

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Flamenco / Classical Hybrid (in reply to chapman_g)

Any photos of that veranda? I always get so melancholic when I see Swedish wooden houses with veranda. (skärgaards ströming ock snaps paa verandan

)

_____________________________

Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 15 2007 7:44:06

Per Hallgren

Posts: 241
Joined: Jul. 1 2006
From: Sweden

RE: Flamenco / Classical Hybrid (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Well, I don't want to get you too homesick. If you really insist on it I will take a photo of it. Which snaps do you prefer? One of my favourites is Aalborg, ooops, sorry, now you got even more melacholic

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 15 2007 17:20:56

marc55

Posts: 21
Joined: Jan. 22 2007

RE: Flamenco / Classical Hybrid (in reply to chapman_g)

I recently bought a 'Casa Montalvo Negra Select' (second hand) - they retail at about $2000 - it came with two saddles - a down and dirty flamenco one and a higher more refined one. Either way it sounds great - but obviously the action is lower with the flamenco saddle.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 3 2007 14:08:43

a_arnold

Posts: 558
Joined: Jul. 30 2006

RE: Flamenco / Classical Hybrid (in reply to chapman_g)

Salvador Castillo also will build a negra hybrid with 3 saddles, one flamenco, one classical, and one compromise. You can see an example at

http://www.flamencokc.com/store.html#guitars

Personally, I feel like his negra is sufficiently classical sounding even with the flamenco saddle.

Tony Arnold

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 29 2007 4:46:05