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Glueing and cleaning up
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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 RE: Glueing and cleaning up (in reply to Stu)
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quote:
But I find one of the most stressful parts of the process is anything involving glue. I guess its the fact that the clock is ticking the second you squeeze it onto whatever component youre glueing...Are there any major DOs and DONTs that you guys have in regards to glueing/cleaning up.
Hi Stu, I guess one of the big things is try not to panic. Depending on the glue you’re using the open time can be far greater than you think. But regardless of that, doing a couple of dry runs can help reduce the stress, take a good look at the fit, and remind yourself that if things start to go awry you can always pull the pieces apart, clean them up, and repeat the operation once you’ve calmed down.
Large surfaces being joined will tend to wander and this can cause stress. It helps to understand why the wander is happening. One reason can be due to the clamp placement. When a clamp is tightened its natural tendency will be to reduce the distance between the jaws (seems obvious, lol) and the shortest distance will be when the jaws are directly opposite each other. To accomplish this, the clamp will pull the pieces sideways to correct for any jaw offset. Note that this characteristic can be used to your advantage if you want to laterally butt two pieces together while one is being glued to a substrate.
A second cause of wander is poor fit. For instance, a heel block can take off in all directions when the fit is poor, regardless of the orientation to the clamp jaws. If you notice that the heel slides away in unexpected directions from the clamp, or becomes less stable when more than one clamp is used, then that is telling you that you quite likely have a small hump somewhere on one of the joining surfaces. The solution there is to pull it apart, clean up the surfaces, and touch them up with a plane until they are as flat as proverbial pancakes. The hump might be so slight that it’s invisible or imperceptible to the eye when mating the dry surfaces, so a good way to check is by using your sense of touch instead and gently rock the pieces and see if you feel any movement under your fingers.
As far as squeeze-out is concerned, I agree with John 100%. Small amounts of squeeze-out in interior surfaces that may appear sloppy when wet tend to shrink into insignificance once the glue is dry. I stopped worrying about that a long time ago, and then came to the conclusion that some visible squeeze-out was a desirable trait and not something to be disdained. I mean honest amounts, not gobs and drips. As Tom said, a damp cloth can work wonders if there’s an unsightly drip you want to get rid of. Also, once dry, drips can often just be snapped off with a gentle prod and tap with the end of a dull chisel, flathead screwdriver tip, or stick of wood. Most times, it’s best to just leave them be, however.
I’m just kind of rambling, but I tend to make my clean up sticks on the go before each job, or at least clean up my old clean up sticks.
On outer surfaces, such as the fingerboard to the top or neck, the dry fit is extremely important, as it’s really not ideal to rely on clamping pressure to eliminate any gaps (I guess that’s a general rule, actually). Wait until the glue gels a bit before cleaning off the squeeze-out, otherwise it’ll just get spread everywhere and make a mess. Also, be careful about using water for cleanup of squeeze-out. The water will tend to flow into the join and thin the glue, which will then proceed to squeeze out some more. And on and on. Even if the intent is to French Polish after the fingerboard is glued down, it still doesn’t hurt to wipe some shellac along the area where the edge of the fingerboard will rest to seal the wood and this will help with cleanup, too. Same applies to the bridge...
At any rate, I hope some of these tips help reduce stress/panic. Main thing is, if you’ve done all the dry fits and test runs, and things still go silly once the glue hits the wood, then take a deep breath, pull it apart, clean up and start over once the source of the silliness is understood. That’s better than powering through and having to redo the work later.
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Date Sep. 7 2021 16:26:02
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: Glueing and cleaning up (in reply to Stu)
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quote:
But I find one of the most stressful parts of the process is anything involving glue.
You know, I’m kind of happy you brought this subject up because thinking back on it, when I started out glue-up times were pretty stressful for me, too. And the more stressed about it I would get, the more I would plan ahead. I’d try to account for every little thing that could possibly go wrong, and then when the glue was on everything and, as you say, the clock was ticking, I’d drop something, or somehow not be able find a part, or get glue all over my hands and clothes, or whatever, and the whole operation would turn into some kind of panicked frenzy. The main source of the mishaps were from me trying to work faster than my ability would allow.
I had to learn to consciously slow down and also had to be willing to stop an operation and restart it before I got the situation under control. Before I reached that stage I think I had to remove and replace something like three fretboards that had slight gaps somewhere, I had to cut the scarf and heel block joins off numerous necks and replane and then rejoin them, and on my second guitar I re-did the binding twice. Almost all of the mishaps were from either not properly checking my fits or by working faster than I should have been. I would argue that not confirming a fit also falls in the category of working too fast. After redoing so much stuff I finally realized it was easier and ultimately more efficient to stop an operation mid-stream, correct, and start over than to say a quick prayer and try to get everything to work by screwing the clamps down harder and hoping that everything would magically turn out OK. I also had to accept that I was not an extremely fast builder and probably never would be, so of course I now preach that speed is over-rated, and I take my time and try to do things right.
An apprentice of my first teacher took to working in his bare feet. One day he was gluing something with CA glue, spilled some on the floor, and then proceeded to stand in it while completing the operation. I’ve never glued my feet to the floor, but I’ve glued various objects to my hands and fingers, and various limbs to each other. You can buy an antidote for CA, but it tastes terrible, lol, so now I just dab acetone on the spot, instead.
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Date Sep. 9 2021 21:12:10
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Pat Foster
Posts: 5
Joined: Oct. 24 2019
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RE: Glueing and cleaning up (in reply to Stu)
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I recently experimented with Lee Valley #2002 cabinet makers glue. It's an AR, like white glue, but is actually tan in color, so I wouldn't use it on say, the top center seam. Big plus with it is that parts don't scoot around like with other AR glues. Joint strength and separability with heat is similar to other AR glues.
For hide glue, on braces, for example, I wait until the squeezeout has gelled to do initial cleanup. Then, after it's dried, I do the final cleanup with a little water and an old, soft toothbrush. With AR glues, it's also helpful to wait for it to gel.
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Date Sep. 10 2021 1:29:20
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Stu
Posts: 2526
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England
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RE: Glueing and cleaning up (in reply to RobF)
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quote:
An apprentice of my first teacher took to working in his bare feet. One day he was gluing something with CA glue, spilled some on the floor, and then proceeded to stand in it while completing the operation
Ha!!  genuinely hilarious!
hey Rob I see you mention speed/too fast throughout your post. I think this is exactly my prob. mainly due to the fact that every bit of my workshop time is really limited and I could be summoned back to the house at any moment to help with baby stuff. so trying to slow down is an extra tough mental feat.
other areas of my life, cooking, guitar practice, work, general stuff about the house. I seem to have a methodical, considered approach that promotes calm and less chaos. but in the workshop I turn into someone i dont know!! tools everywhere, losing pencils constantly, and i sort of get away with it for non glue related tasks... but when that style carries over into glueing up. its what creates the stress!
Definitely need to persist with trying to slow my process down. Thanks for the reminder!
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Date Sep. 10 2021 8:46:50
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