Flamenco beginner :)

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Steven Campoli

Posts: 25
Joined: Dec. 29 2020
From: Montréal (Québec, Canada)

Flamenco beginner :)

Hey guys, I came across this forum and subscribed right away! My musical journey started at 14 years old playing the bass. It’s about 1 year now at 35 years old i have been playing classical guitar which quickly turned into flamenco. I started with the fingering which I had already adapted with the bass guitar so I didn’t have a problem with that. I have 2 teachers and learning different techniques but what I would like is different beginner melodies and chord progressions. I find myself using the same chord progressions when practising these techniques (fan rasgueos, saladelle, rumba) different things I’m learning but find my self stuck. I’m currently listening to gipsi kings and Paco de Lucia but I find it hard right now to follow them, their so good. I have a classical guitar but waiting upon my raimundo m125 Blanca to come in. I am dedicated and live this forum. I also saw the thread with the different chords and will go over all of those. Which melodies can I find to practise as a beginner. I am also self teaching myself the culture and different styles of flamenco, it fascinates me. Thanks guys, this forum motivates me!

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Steven Campoli

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2020 16:34:32

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Steven Campoli)

Hi Steven,

At this stage, I would not worry about chord progressions. There is a huge amount to learn in the right hand, if you are right-handed. I came from bass too and the fingerboard is really not an issue, it is all the other hand's technique and of course, compás.

Without those two things, you are lost.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2020 18:40:55

Steven Campoli

Posts: 25
Joined: Dec. 29 2020
From: Montréal (Québec, Canada)

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Escribano)

Yes your right, going to continue practising the right hand while muting the strings. I record videos of my teacher when we have lessons, going to also focus on compas as you mentioned. When I don’t have lessons I’m on you tube learning, it’s amazing what these hands can do. Thanks for the reply, if you stumble on any useful links or videos I will definetly add them to my collection and practise to them :)

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Steven Campoli

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2020 21:19:55

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Steven Campoli)

quote:

Thanks for the reply, if you stumble on any useful links or videos I will definetly add them to my collection and practise to them :)

A few lessons should keep you occupied for months. Seriously, the techniques are alien to you and I but compás is everything.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2020 21:55:15

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Steven Campoli)

Welcome to the foro Steven!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2020 22:10:27

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Piwin)

Oh, and about your question, I guess it sort of depends on what you want to do. I'm no expert, but I'd say that looking for guitar melodies with chord progressions to match them might work if you want to start with rumba, but it may be a bit less suitable for other palos.

So dunno. It's not my forte, but if rumba is what you want to start with, then I think you're probably on the right track by listening to the Gipsy Kings. I can't really help you there, but I'd imagine you can find different chord progressions to work with by working your way through their repertoire. I guess the thing is that rumba is a bit of an outlier. You'll even hear some voices who feel so strongly about it that they'll insist that it's not flamenco at all. I personally wouldn't go that far (besides, who cares what you call it really? ^^), but I do think it's a bit of an outlier in terms of how the music is structured and how you would go about learning it.

For other palos it might be better to look at some of the structural aspects first. Dunno. In my case the first thing I learned was how to play a basic compas in solea. I then got a few variations on it, but none of it really qualifies as melody per se. Really just different ways to express rhythm. Then I learned a few falsetas, which are indeed melodic, and then just learned to switch back and forth between the basic compas and those falsetas. And honestly for the first few months it was almost all E-F, and a bit of Am, C and G, but that's it. So it wasn't really about looking for a diversity of chord progressions, but instead about exploring different things to do within the basic chord progression of solea. So it's a bit different than how you might approach, say, folk music or jazz.

Another option might be to get right away into accompaniment, where you can approach it as "here's a sung melody and the chord progression to accompany it", but be warned that it's one deep rabbit hole. Here's an excellent page on cante por solea: http://canteytoque.es/soleares.htm

Here's some free stuff from Manuel Granados (technical exercises, and then at the very bottom two links to an English version of a text with a bit more explanation on palos, etc. Worth noting that a lot of people wouldn't necessarily agree with his music theory explanations though, so perhaps best to just use it for the basic explanations and the scores):
https://www.manuelgranados.net/estudios-descargas/

He's my go-to guy for technical exercises (and Escribano is absolutely right IMO that focusing on developing right-hand technique is really important at the beginning).

You might also check out youtube pages like Atrafana, where I think he has a lot of free stuff on basic technique.

Anyway, dunno if any of that is helpful. It's just what came to mind when reading your post. Welcome to the foro!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2020 23:48:04

chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Steven Campoli)

Hi Steven, welcome!

I remember when I discovered flamenco. It IS hard to follow at first, but keep going and one day you'll realize you can tell the difference between a tango and a buleria

Paco de Lucia (from your examples) is especially "deep". His music is built on a ton of context that a beginner isn't likely to have.

Do you know any flamenco artists that have simpler guitar parts?

For example this stuff is a little simpler than most of Paco's solo albums.

quote:

I find myself using the same chord progressions when practising these techniques

Which chord progressions?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2020 0:07:40

Steven Campoli

Posts: 25
Joined: Dec. 29 2020
From: Montréal (Québec, Canada)

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to chester)

This is all very very helpful, thank you so much. I’ve been following tickouss on you tube and he has some great tutorials I’ve been practising. Going to focus on his “compas” sessions and right hand techniques, @Chester I do not know any other “simpler” artists but what u posted above sounds amazing, and I get the idea on how to continue. Going to break it down one step at a time. can’t wait for my flamenco guitar to come in, I really do not get the right feel or sound from the classical I’m using. Thanks @Piwin for the links going to check them out :), it’s nice that the PDFs are both in theory and tab form! this is all greatly appreciated.

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Steven Campoli

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2020 0:31:57

Schieper

Posts: 208
Joined: Mar. 29 2017
From: The Netherlands

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Steven Campoli)

I am a beginner myselve as well. I understand where you come from but as all above wrote; chord progressions are not that relevant in the sense that they do not make the music.

However, I can give you a farruca I am practising right now which is very roughly:

Em Am Em Am Dm Am Em but when you play it that way; that sounds... not so interesting.

Or you have this standard andalusion(?) chord progression... sounds very spanisch and which sounds to me the basis for many of the solo's for Malaguena's I have:

Am(5th fred) G(3th) F(1th) E(open)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2020 10:12:12

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Schieper)

quote:

Em Am Em Am Dm Am Em but when you play it that way; that sounds... not so interesting.

Are you sure it is not E7 instead of Em?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2020 15:46:45

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Schieper)

quote:

chord progressions are not that relevant in the sense that they do not make the music.

They kinda do. Try thinking of them as harmony (either implied or really there) of the music instead of shapes on your fingerboard.

Melody (horizontal), harmony (vertical) and rhythm (time).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2020 22:17:04

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Steven Campoli)

quote:

I’ve been following tickouss on you tube

Looked him up and yeah, he's definitely a rumbero. If that's what you're after, there's also MrTchavo who's really good at explaining rumba patterns IMO. (it's in French, but since your profile says you're from Montréal, I figure there's a non trivial chance that you might speak French ^^ If not, you can probably still get something out of it coz he goes through everything really slow and you can probably just follow the hands)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2020 23:50:34

rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Steven Campoli)

quote:

saladelle

What is this?

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 31 2020 21:53:12

Steven Campoli

Posts: 25
Joined: Dec. 29 2020
From: Montréal (Québec, Canada)

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Piwin)

This sounds amazing, thanks for the share, gonna spend some time with this one.

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Steven Campoli

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 1 2021 3:54:16

Steven Campoli

Posts: 25
Joined: Dec. 29 2020
From: Montréal (Québec, Canada)

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to rombsix)

Was something I was practising, I probably made a mistake with the actual term

Here’s the link

https://youtu.be/Co1sBGscrO0

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Steven Campoli

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 1 2021 3:57:01

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Steven Campoli)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steven Campoli

Was something I was practising, I probably made a mistake with the actual term

Here’s the link

https://youtu.be/Co1sBGscrO0

Wow, that was some Manitas de plata style mash up....I would avoid that stuff.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 1 2021 15:14:51

ric

Posts: 84
Joined: Dec. 27 2010

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Steven Campoli)

I too started out on bass, and now I'm trying to be a crappy guitarist

Technique is huge, and I'm still struggling with how to get the best from my nails. Then there is over time, the attack you use, defines your sound. Listen to as much as you can, recognizing different palos, over time, then trying to identify guitarists you like, singers. Take a flamenco dance class (post covid). Enjoy!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 1 2021 15:31:56

Steven Campoli

Posts: 25
Joined: Dec. 29 2020
From: Montréal (Québec, Canada)

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Piwin)

Thank you for showing me this, his tutorials are amazing :)

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Steven Campoli

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 2 2021 22:56:03

Schieper

Posts: 208
Joined: Mar. 29 2017
From: The Netherlands

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Ricardo)

:-) you are absolutely right ricardo. E7

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2021 16:49:56

rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Steven Campoli)

quote:

I have 2 teachers

Are they based in Montreal? If so, who are they?

I have family in Montreal and used to visit often until COVID hit. Perhaps when this crap settles down and I visit again, we can meet up and jam.

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Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 3 2021 17:50:08

Steven Campoli

Posts: 25
Joined: Dec. 29 2020
From: Montréal (Québec, Canada)

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to rombsix)

Yes they are based in Montréal. one of my teachers is Nico Palermo and the other is joe Segreti. Also from Montréal is the artist that @Piwin posted above Mrtchavo. I’m surrounding myself around the right people lol, this is a long and beautiful journey :) message me if ever you are around :)

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Steven Campoli

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 4 2021 13:23:03

Cervantes

Posts: 503
Joined: Jun. 14 2014
From: Encinitas, CA USA

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Steven Campoli)

Steven,

Welcome!
I suggest you check out Atrafana on youtube.
The best online Flamenco lessons I know of that are not with a private teacher.
Tons of free videos and the fees are really low for the pay stuff.
Also classical guitar technique can be very helpful, the book Pumping Nylon is a good place to start.

Joel

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Ah well, there was a fantastic passion there, in my case anyway. I discovered flamenco
very early on. It grips you in a way that you can't get away - Paco Pena

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 7 2021 15:52:08

Steven Campoli

Posts: 25
Joined: Dec. 29 2020
From: Montréal (Québec, Canada)

RE: Flamenco beginner :) (in reply to Steven Campoli)

Thanks for everyone’s feedback. I started following some amazing artists on you tube such as atrafana, mrtchavo, and Dan Garcia. I also downloaded a app called learn flamenco guitar by Dan Garcia. It’s very detailed. I’ve been studying the history and different techniques :) the app also includes the following below in detail with many exercises.

Techniques I go over everyday for at least 2 hours are arpeggios, picado, rasqueados, golpe, alzapua, tremolo and pulgar.

As for Compás included in the app is the following palos (tangos, solea, Sevillanas, rumba, malaguena, bulerias)

So my hands will be filled for a long time, I’d rather go very slow and understand the rhythm of each palos then to rush a badly played technique.

Thanks guys! This motivates me to continue learning and playing.

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Steven Campoli

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 11 2021 22:43:46