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Is this an authentic Conde?
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Pontecorvo
Posts: 30
Joined: Jul. 18 2021
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 Is this an authentic Conde?
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Hi everybody,
I’m from Europe and I’m new on this forum.
Last week I purchased a Conde guitar on Reverb from a German seller (a guitar store), it’s a 2002 model.
I have been playing a studio model Conde for years now, but it has always been my dream to own a good Media Luna model.
The bad part about purchasing an instrument this way is of course the fact that you can’t play it, or see it in person.
The good part is that it was on 20% sale for a short period of time.
So I took the gamble.
I think it was a good price, I also think that if I am not happy with the guitar I can sell it for at least about the same price I payed, it’s a Conde and I know that name will sell.
I am about to pay for the guitar, so then it’s definitive.
Maybe it’s kind of stupid because I did some research on the seller and no negative things can’t be found (it’s a guitar store that is completely into Spanish guitars), but it’s been said that there are fake Conde’s among us, and it’s still a lot of money that I pay.
I would really like your opinions about this guitar, and would like to know if there is any sign that this can be not a real Conde.
I have uploaded some pictures of the guitar.
Thanks for now!
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Date Jul. 18 2021 15:57:20
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Pontecorvo
Posts: 30
Joined: Jul. 18 2021
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RE: Is this an authentic Conde? (in reply to RobF)
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Thanks.
I did a lot of comparisons online, and these tuners are on these guitars everywhere, so I wonder if they’re not original.
But I’m no expert at all when it comes to tuners.
To me they look as very fine tuners, a lot better than the ones on my studio model for sure.
I do think 20% off for a while is possible, why shouldn’t it be?
Sometimes stores do these kind of things.
I had an electric guitar store myself for years, we too did this, as for instance some kind of weekend deal or in holidays.
I really appreciate your reaction but I wonder if you’re right, and if this can be seen from above (I only posted a picture from above before your reaction).
Maybe you are, I would really like to hear some more opinions on this and I will surely try to get some more info myself.
But even when these are not the original tuners that came on the guitar in 2002, is that a reason to pass?
I also never mentioned what I must pay for the instrument, you don’t know.
So I think the ‘passing’ part is a bit too much to say at this moment.
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Date Jul. 18 2021 16:55:46
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Echi
Posts: 1131
Joined: Jan. 11 2013
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RE: Is this an authentic Conde? (in reply to Pontecorvo)
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Rob, I respect your idea, but I don’t agree and frankly I know no dealer who would cut the price of a guitar for a matter of tuners.
I saw this happening just in case of expensive tuners, like Bouchet handcrafted tuners or Rodgers but really never with Fustero.
Ordinary Fustero tuners used to be a cheap standard for any guitar made in Spain except for few premium models (the silver plated model used by Arcangel, the Fleta model and no else).
Tuners used in 2002 by Conde of Calle Gravina often were standard Fustero in the cheap side; being Fustero still in the market whoever can buy a pair of tuners and the guitar would be back to his “original” state.
I agree with you the actual tuners are crap, which means you may add the price for better tuners (100-200 euro).
Re the rosette: it’s a cheap version of a motif used by Ramirez in the ‘70 and in recent years.
It’s possible Conde used it, I just don’t remember to have ever seen it.
I once spotted a Conde with a wrong rosette (with the Bellido motif) and eventually the guitar turned out to be a Sanchis 2AF with a fake Conde label and a modified headstock.
Of course it’s possible in this case the guitar is not a fake and I’m getting fooled: if you ask me, just by the pictures you posted, I have some doubts it’s an original Conde and I’m sharing them just for your own sake.
It’s not just about the rosette: it’s about the rosette, the headstock, the label and the stamp: nothing is completely wrong but all of them are unusual details and common with some fake 2011 Conde which recently appeared on the bay.
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Date Jul. 18 2021 20:03:12
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: Is this an authentic Conde? (in reply to Pontecorvo)
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quote:
I really appreciate your reaction but I wonder if you’re right, and if this can be seen from above (I only posted a picture from above before your reaction).
Maybe you are, I would really like to hear some more opinions on this and I will surely try to get some more info myself.
Well, you joined the Foro seeking free advice and opinions and have received some. You can decide what to do with it and members can also decide if helping you is worth their effort.
I think sometimes common sense has to apply. To my eye, which, when it comes to guitars, is quite likely better than your eye, the guitar looks like a Conde of that era. They are very nicely made. They had nice Fustero tuners. I owned one of that vintage. It was beautifully crafted. It had nice Fustero tuners. It was also the second worst sounding guitar I’ve ever owned, the worst being another high end Madrid guitar made by a different famous person in the same time frame, also beautifully crafted, and also with nice Fustero tuners. Maybe swapping out the nice Fustero tuners and putting in garbage piece of crap tuners is the secret solution to making these beautifully crafted terrible sounding guitars work better? I don’t know, what do I know?
This thread reminds me of something Oscar Wilde once said about gardening.
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Date Jul. 18 2021 20:07:02
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: Is this an authentic Conde? (in reply to Echi)
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quote:
Rob, I respect your idea, but I don’t agree and frankly I know no dealer who would cut the price of a guitar for a matter of tuners.
I don’t want to get into an argument about this, especially in this thread, but any dealer who says there is no difference in value between tuners from original is simply being unethical and dishonest.
The hand engraved gold plated Fusteros were affordable at maker prices back then, I know this because I bought from them and I know what I paid, but the current value today is significantly higher, maybe ten times higher now. It’s funny how as the street value of the last of the hand engraved Fusteros increased they started disappearing off of the guitars in shops, only to be replaced by tuners of lesser value. So, when a dealer says it makes no difference, who cares, they are liars, that’s all.
Just like believing in discounts on used items. What’s happened to common sense?
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Date Jul. 18 2021 20:15:28
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Pontecorvo
Posts: 30
Joined: Jul. 18 2021
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RE: Is this an authentic Conde? (in reply to Pontecorvo)
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Okay, I just had a chat conversation with Maria Conde.
She also talked with her father about this, so it was quiet a long talk, but nice.
Of course there is always the fact that a lot has happened within the Conde family history, but what can we believe?
Maybe they are a little negative about some things concerning each other, maybe they only want to sell us their currently made new instruments, maybe they are 100% fair about everything?
I don’t know…
Anyway, this is what she tells me about this guitar:
- The guitar is definitely a Conde. Well… made under the Conde name. But ‘factory’ made.
- Made in the shop that was owned by the widow of Faustino. She used lower quality woods etc.
No professional quality compared to materials being used today (Maria describes this shop as a factory, instruments being made there were not fully handcrafted).
- Tuners are the original ones that came on the guitar when it left that shop, but it is ‘low’ quality material.
- The rosette is not from any traditional Conde model or from ‘their’ workshop.
——————-
Well, I think that my main question has been answered; it’s a Conde.
It also has the original tuners.
That’s what I wanted to know.
But… they’re not really positive about this guitar (this period in their history) for sure.
Does that mean that this guitar is bad?
There are a lot of people who payed much money for a guitar from this area, and I’m sure for many of them it is their pride and joy.
I don’t know if I will buy it, let me sleep on it.
Maybe I do, maybe I’ll pass.
It’s a bug’s life.
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Date Jul. 18 2021 22:54:56
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RobF
Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
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RE: Is this an authentic Conde? (in reply to Pontecorvo)
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quote:
Same seller. Same year and rosette as ‘mine’. Only a Blanca.
Same stupid tuners, too.
As far as the Negra goes - apart from the heel and center strip of the back not aligning, the finish spray not catching all of the soundhole edges, the soundhole not being perfectly centered in the rosette, and the CHEAP-ASS tuners, it looks like a nice guitar.
If you don’t mind eating the shipping costs and are happy with the discounted price, then it might be worth a try. If the price aligns with the Blanca’s and has a 20% discount on top of that, then they’re asking for less than a third of what they’re asking for a new one, so that has to be taken into account. If it sounds good and plays good, then the rest is no big deal. You could always upgrade the tuners later, as Echi suggested, but if they function well enough, why bother?
It was very nice of the Conde family to talk to you about it on a Sunday evening. From what I’ve experienced in the past with the father and Philipe Jr. it doesn’t surprise me that much, they’re pretty decent people.
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Date Jul. 19 2021 0:07:36
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Pontecorvo
Posts: 30
Joined: Jul. 18 2021
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RE: Is this an authentic Conde? (in reply to RobF)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RobF
quote:
Same seller. Same year and rosette as ‘mine’. Only a Blanca.
Same stupid tuners, too.
As far as the Negra goes - apart from the heel and center strip of the back not aligning, the finish spray not catching all of the soundhole edges, the soundhole not being perfectly centered in the rosette, and the CHEAP-ASS tuners, it looks like a nice guitar.
If you don’t mind eating the shipping costs and are happy with the discounted price, then it might be worth a try. If the price aligns with the Blanca’s and has a 20% discount on top of that, then they’re asking for less than a third of what they’re asking for a new one, so that has to be taken into account. If it sounds good and plays good, then the rest is no big deal. You could always upgrade the tuners later, as Echi suggested, but if they function well enough, why bother?
It was very nice of the Conde family to talk to you about it on a Sunday evening. From what I’ve experienced in the past with the father and Philipe Jr. it doesn’t surprise me that much, they’re pretty decent people.
Well, I remember Felipe Conde himself once wrote me in an email that his guitars are never 100% perfect, only because they’re totally handmade.
I mean; if I want a perfectly centered rosette then I’ll buy a factory made Alhambra.
The price of this guitar is indeed about the same as the Blanca in the link, + 20% off.
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Date Jul. 19 2021 0:43:04
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