That picado thing

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That picado thing

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flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

That picado thing

This picado thing. We all know we are meant to play imimimim .... or whaever. And surely that should be easy. Once im are walking then they just maintain a steady rhythm. The righthand (assuming righthand player) just moves up and down so the righthand fingers float above the correct string and the next finger, i or m marches straight on in there.

So why, when I play quickly a 35 note picado (little Solea adorno - mini falseta) do I end up sometimes playing the last note with i and other times m?

Possible I played two contiguous notes with the same finger? Possible I did this more than once? In the latter case I might have ended up on the correct finger after two errors!

My approach so far is to play it slowly. Then try to speed it up. Then, when the error occurs try to slow down just a bit, and then go forward. The frustration is that the picardo with errors sounds great (which when all said and done is my objective). Why am I bothering? "I ask myself

".

I assume the problem is that moving from say the third string to the fourth gives my subconscious brain the chance to think that logically using the same finger again has a hidden benefit. Maybe old thinker sees that m has just played the second string, i the third. Logically i must be nearer to the fourth?

I just feel this is a case where clearly understanding the problem would naturally lead to the best solution. But all the courses I have just say do it right. Has anyone any reference, or ideas, as to what is going on, and related specific exercises to correct it?

It really is frustrating when it sounds really good but you know there is an issue. Or maybe, with no pretentions of being Paco de Lucia, I should ignore it. Maybe it will sort itself out over time. And I've got a lot more techniques to spend time on.

Any thoughts, for sure if you've cracked it, most welcome.

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2019 15:59:09

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: That picardo thing (in reply to flyeogh)

What if you tried playing it in a loop adding a note each time (first 2 notes, then first 3, then first 4, etc.) to figure out where exactly you're repeating fingers? Maybe the better players on here can tell you whether repeating when crossing strings is really a problem. Personally I tend to do it when there's a ligado on the upper string. If you can do it when it's a straight picado run (no ligados) then I'm not sure why it would be a problem, as long as it's something you're doing consciously. Obviously that's only for descending runs, not ascending.

BTW, is "picardo" some kind of Latino Star Trek character?

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2019 17:21:26

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: That picardo thing (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin
BTW, is "picardo" some kind of Latino Star Trek character?

I thought that was Ricardo's nickname

As the the original question - why don't why record yourself (video) and then slow it down and see where exactly you are repeating fingers. Do it several times as well and see if you are consistent in where you do it.

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2019 17:35:43

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: That picardo thing (in reply to Piwin)

quote:

BTW, is "picardo" some kind of Latino Star Trek character?

see what I mean? The minute brain goes to auto-pilot anything can happen

corrected it to not mislead others. But keep up the good work pwin. I'm meant to be an English teacher

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2019 17:36:05

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: That picardo thing (in reply to kitarist)

quote:

and see where exactly you are repeating fingers.

Konstantin done that and it isn't always the same place. For sure it happens when changing strings. I've tried being really careful using the upward/downward arm movements to ensure the fingers are well positioned.

I think all I can do is give it a couple of minutes a day and push on. As I say I'm pleased with the sound and timing.

Sometimes I guess I can over think things when they're no big deal. Out of 35 notes over 6 strings it is sometimes ok, sometimes 1 error, and occasionally two errors.

But I'm sure there is a scientific answer. (That's what becomes of being 50 years in IT I guess

)

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2019 17:48:07

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: That picardo thing (in reply to flyeogh)

Well I guess if you have a completely fluid fast picado with random finger repetitions when string-switching on descending runs, it does not much matter. What happens on ascending runs? I am guessing strict i-m alternation, since repeating a finger is never natural on switching strings in that direction?

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2019 19:29:45

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: That picardo thing (in reply to flyeogh)

quote:

ORIGINAL: flyeogh

quote:

and see where exactly you are repeating fingers.

Konstantin done that and it isn't always the same place. For sure it happens when changing strings. I've tried being really careful using the upward/downward arm movements to ensure the fingers are well positioned.

I think all I can do is give it a couple of minutes a day and push on. As I say I'm pleased with the sound and timing.

Sometimes I guess I can over think things when they're no big deal. Out of 35 notes over 6 strings it is sometimes ok, sometimes 1 error, and occasionally two errors.

But I'm sure there is a scientific answer. (That's what becomes of being 50 years in IT I guess )

Work on ascending scales only to develop strict alternation. Descending runs afford too many opportunities to cheat or drag the finger. Once you are comfortable ascending fast, you will see benefits in lots of other runs that mix it up. In the end it’s not “wrong” to drag, but you want to know where and why you are doing it in a passage. Your goal is to simply be in control. Here is a vid focused more on position and mechanics but might help:

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2019 0:32:59

Piwin

Posts: 3559
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: That picado thing (in reply to flyeogh)

Sorry. I'm apparently quite bored tonight.

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2019 1:41:31

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: That picado thing (in reply to flyeogh)

Thankyou Konstantin, Ricardo y Piwin. Last night I watched/listened to a 2 hour live asesoria by my man in Valencia. Mainly fandango de Alosno " por medio ", and accompanying cante and flamenco-pop. But throughout I was repeating my Picado based on your ideas and it did get better. To be honest my picado didn't sit well with either the fandangos or the pop but c'est la vie. (Luckily the asesoria was copied so I can see it again).

And then Ricardo's vid turned up and now all is much clearer. Why that vid is not a flamenco treasure I will never know. Very clear and simple, but detailed explanation. And my brain got it

If I don't collapse the finger, or hand, or atleast that is the thought in my mind, then the walking pace of the fingers is maintained.

And just now 5 run throughs with all the correct fingering. Next I'll try mi, then ia then ...................................

Hope you all have a great day

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2019 9:03:36