First non Spaniard graduated in cante at Concervatory in Barcelona

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gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

First non Spaniard graduated in cant...

Luna Zegers from Amsterdam, Holland, graduated as first non spaniard at the prestige ESMUC Concervatory in Barcelona

http://youtu.be/r_qsjsuhaPg

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2015 14:57:56

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to gerundino63)

Man, I didn't even know that had cante at University :)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2015 15:18:30

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to gerundino63)

That can't be a walk in the park!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2015 16:07:09

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to Escribano)

quote:

That can't be a walk in the park!

Agreed! An amazing achievement.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2015 18:03:16

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to gerundino63)

Congrats to her! That indeed must have been very difficult.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2015 20:15:02

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to Escribano)

Maybe the Vondelpark?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2015 20:52:56

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to gerundino63)

quote:

Maybe the Vondelpark?

On a Sunday afternoon, around and around? Nah, tougher than that

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 8 2015 20:58:15

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to gerundino63)

Well no offense to any of her friends or colleagues on here but it was hard to get past the ay ay ay part.

To give constructive advice she needed to (before graduation I guess)

1. figure out the proper key to sing in cuz it's too low for her.
2. Learn how to open her voice...the proper key will help that too.
3. record herself singing...because she is not in tune.
4. Learn singing technique of expression such as vibrato, accents and rhythms.
5. get the accent and inflexion details of the language a little more accurate.
6. most importantly...really feel it and express that, not just sing the song how it was learned.

I guess no. 6 is subjective. I wonder what Morante thinks?

No I am lying, I already can imagine. I admit I am probably more critical of singers than guitar players for some reason, that's just me.

After all I guess it's cool they are teaching this stuff in schools. I just hope the graduates keep it real so they don't get badly injured egos when trying to work.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2015 3:05:00

gerundino63

Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to Ricardo)

Well, Ricardo,
Advice is to learn from.
She could only be thankful for your honest opinion.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2015 7:50:50

rombsix

Posts: 7805
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to Ricardo)

Olé and I agree with maestro Marlow.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2015 12:00:59

jamh2000

Posts: 41
Joined: Jan. 13 2012

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to gerundino63)

The only criticism I think is a bit unfair is #3- she is only out of tune during the ay ay ays.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2015 12:37:22

Morante

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Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to Ricardo)

http://www.lauravital.com/

Here is another cantaora who learned in the school of Cristine Heeren. She has the advantage of being española.

But she has not learned that flamenco is "trasmitir". She has most of the elements, but is a boring cantaora: I have heard her live several times.

These people need to listen to Fernanda. Cantaores are not cantantes.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2015 15:36:45

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to Morante)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

http://www.lauravital.com/

Here is another cantaora who learned in the school of Cristine Heeren. She has the advantage of being española.

But she has not learned that flamenco is "trasmitir". She has most of the elements, but is a boring cantaora: I have heard her live several times.

These people need to listen to Fernanda. Cantaores are not cantantes.

Morante can you describe the term 'trasmitir'? I listened to a video of Laura Vital, a bit too 'ordered' for my liking if that makes sense.

I presume you mean Fernanda de Utrera? I love Fernanda (and Bernarda) de Utrera. Their album Cultura Jonde VII is one of the albums I've listened to the most in recent years.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2015 16:57:08

Morante

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Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to tijeretamiel)

quote:

Morante can you describe the term 'trasmitir'?

No need: it simply means transmit, but to transmit emotion. Your decription of "ordered" is perfect.

When you sit in front of an "ordered" cantaor who is always in tune, knows all the letras and has compás, you are not involved. Rather you might be thinking He said he was going to sing alegrias, but now its cantiñas, or he has mixed letras from 2 well known verses, or the phrasing for that letra was all wrong.

When you sit in front of Agujetas, Juan Villar, Rancapino, Fernanda, you are transfixed: the emotion they transmit transports you to another dimension.

You probably would´nt even notice if they went out of compás, because cante flamenco is more than a sum of the parts.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2015 18:00:49

Ricardo

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Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to jamh2000)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jamh2000

The only criticism I think is a bit unfair is #3- she is only out of tune during the ay ay ays.

I listened to the rest to be fair. Any musician or singer will improve if they get in the habit of recording themselves and being self critical. Most of the greatest can't stand hearing themselves because they are constantly improving on the imperfections. If you record yourself and listen back and think "wow, I sound AWESOME!!"...then it's all over pretty much. Autotune ain't for flamencos, I am sorry.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 9 2015 19:31:51

bicharraco

Posts: 25
Joined: Mar. 19 2015

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to gerundino63)

conservatorio, Barcelona, holandesa, graduación en cante.... Todos esos conceptos están en las antípodas del flamenco.

He visto el video un rato y lo he tenido que quitar porque me ha generado rechazo. Sus gestos y su acento andaluz impostado....no se, hay algo que no me gusta nada.

Muchas veces cuando veo "guiri performances " siento como si estuvieran faltando el respeto a mi cultura, pues a menudo me parecen caricaturas bufas. Especialmente cuando alguien se atreve a cantar, siento vergüenza ajena.

Se que es injusto porque en realidad a esa gente les mueve un profundo amor por la cultura flamenca y andaluza, pero no puedo evitarlo.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 11 2015 10:44:04

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to bicharraco)

quote:

conservatorio, Barcelona, holandesa, graduación en cante.... Todos esos conceptos están en las antípodas del flamenco.

He visto el video un rato y lo he tenido que quitar porque me ha generado rechazo. Sus gestos y su acento andaluz impostado....no se, hay algo que no me gusta nada.

Muchas veces cuando veo "guiri performances " siento como si estuvieran faltando el respeto a mi cultura, pues a menudo me parecen caricaturas bufas. Especialmente cuando alguien se atreve a cantar, siento vergüenza ajena.

Se que es injusto porque en realidad a esa gente les mueve un profundo amor por la cultura flamenca y andaluza, pero no puedo evitarlo.

Had to go through the meat grinder of Google Translate but it seems to be an interesting and honest post.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 11 2015 12:30:36

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to gerundino63)

quote:

Muchas veces cuando veo "guiri performances " siento como si estuvieran faltando el respeto a mi cultura, pues a menudo me parecen caricaturas bufas. Especialmente cuando alguien se atreve a cantar, siento vergüenza ajena.

I feel the same way when Spaniards come here to surf and skate, then they complain that our tacos are too spicey lol

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 11 2015 13:43:56

Morante

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Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to bicharraco)

quote:

pues a menudo me parecen caricaturas bufas.

Hola amigo, estoy de acuerdo contigo, pero tengo que confesar que la otra noche estaba en el mítico bar el Manteco, con Tomás, hijo del dueño. Por algún razón, alguien sacó una guitarra. Yo tocaba un rato pero ni uno de los gaditanos sabía cantar. Terminé tocando y cantando un fandango que dejó a la gente flipao: no tengo voz ninguna, pero la letra....

Te llaman y reclaman a votar
Te llaman y reclaman a votar
Te ofrecen el oro y el moro del desierto
Pero cuando están arriba otra vez
Entonces olvidan de to
Eso es para cagar en sus muertos, ayyy, ayyy, ayy.

un abrazo

Morante

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 11 2015 18:29:44

Thomas

Posts: 225
Joined: Oct. 5 2005

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to Morante)

quote:

..... Yo tocaba un rato pero ni uno de los gaditanos sabía cantar. Terminé tocando y cantando un fandango que dejó a la gente flipao.....

Morante

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 11 2015 19:47:53

Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to Morante)

quote:

Te llaman y reclaman a votar
Te llaman y reclaman a votar
Te ofrecen el oro y el moro del desierto
Pero cuando están arriba otra vez
Entonces olvidan de to
Eso es para cagar en sus muertos, ayyy, ayyy, ayy.

¡Olé!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 11 2015 20:23:56

bicharraco

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Joined: Mar. 19 2015

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to gerundino63)

un español puede ganar un campeonato de surf, pero puede un estadounidense cantar por solvencia por soleá?

Hay culturas que pueden ser exportadas industrialmente a todos los rincones del mundo, pues para eso han sido diseñadas, y hay otras que no pueden salir de su territorio sin perder su esencia.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2015 12:58:46

Leñador

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From: Los Angeles

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to gerundino63)

That's true, it's more like Spaniards trying to sing the blues or bluegrass.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2015 14:36:50

Miguel de Maria

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From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to gerundino63)

Nothing worse than Andalucians singing the blues. Or French playing jazz. Or anyone not born in the US playing rock. Heck, I see a foreigner play a stratocaster and I feel my country's honor has been sullied. "My name is Inigo Montoya. You sang my people music. Prepare to die."

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2015 15:12:19

tijeretamiel

Posts: 441
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RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Going off topic, but I imagine it'd be akin to American Blues fans being told Eric Clapton is a master of the genre.

Eric Clapton famously said
"Do we have any foreigners in the audience tonight? If so, please put up your hands. Wogs I mean, I'm looking at you. Where are you? I'm sorry but some ****ing wog...Arab grabbed my wife's bum, you know? Surely got to be said, yeah this is what all the ****ing foreigners and wogs over here are like, just disgusting, that's just the truth, yeah. So where are you? Well wherever you all are, I think you should all just leave. Not just leave the hall, leave our country. You ****ing (indecipherable). I don't want you here, in the room or in my country. Listen to me, man! I think we should vote for Enoch Powell. Enoch's our man. I think Enoch's right, I think we should send them all back. Stop Britain from becoming a black colony. Get the foreigners out. Get the wogs out. Get the coons out. Keep Britain white. I used to be into dope, now I'm into racism. It's much heavier, man. ****ing wogs, man. ****ing Saudis taking over London. Bastard wogs. Britain is becoming overcrowded and Enoch will stop it and send them all back. The black wogs and coons and Arabs and ****ing Jamaicans and ****ing (indecipherable) don't belong here, we don't want them here. This is England, this is a white country, we don't want any black wogs and coons living here. We need to make clear to them they are not welcome. England is for white people, man. We are a white country. I don't want ****ing wogs living next to me with their standards. This is Great Britain, a white country, what is happening to us, for ****'s sake? We need to vote for Enoch Powell, he's a great man, speaking truth. Vote for Enoch, he's our man, he's on our side, he'll look after us. I want all of you here to vote for Enoch, support him, he's on our side. Enoch for Prime Minister! Throw the wogs out! Keep Britain white!"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2015 15:26:31

Miguel de Maria

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From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to tijeretamiel)

EC is so famous and such a rock guitar icon that I am not sure the analogy works. I would guess a majority of music fans as well as players wouldn't take any issue with the idea that he was a blues master. I went through a brief EC phase in high school but quickly found the real stuff after that--Robert Johnson, Muddy, Sonny Boy Williamson, Elmore James. Now his playing just seems mostly noodly and pointless to me. But he did serve to introduce me to the major bluesmen. I have never heard a blues player (or singer) who was not black and from the South that I really liked. That being said, I am not sure how much black folks care about EC or the blues in general. They seemed to have moved on to R&B and rap and so forth. But is it an insult to black culture that EC or SRV or some guy from Andalucia tries to sing the blues? The notion is provincial and chauvanistic.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2015 15:42:03

Morante

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RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Funnily enough, I can think of a couple of Americans who can sing quite respectably: our Estela and Richard Black "Quijote", who even accompanies himself. I believe he now lives in Rota, though the first time I met him in José Rebujina´s bar, I accompanied him por alegrías.

He was recently in Cádiz to accompany Antonio Puerto a fine singer:

The young lady who was the beginning of this discussion has a lot on her side and a few drunken juergas might help a lot

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 15 2015 16:49:30

estebanana

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RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

I feel the same way when Spaniards come here to surf and skate, then they complain that our tacos are too spicey lol

The bane of my existence, if I had dime for every teary eyed Spaniard at the taco truck. I've only known one, a Galician, who could hold his hot sauce.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2015 1:41:54

Leñador

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From: Los Angeles

RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to gerundino63)

Lol I don't actually know any Spaniards that surf and skate but the couple Spaniards I DO know max out on black table pepper and order tacos dry lol
Briseyda Zarate is pretty dern good singer for a 'merican. No videos online though.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2015 1:52:59

estebanana

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RE: First non Spaniard graduated in ... (in reply to Leñador)

quote:

Lol I don't actually know any Spaniards that surf and skate but the couple Spaniards I

I know a lot of Spanish windsurfers, but really, what is windsurfing? Not actual surfing, but a kind of sailing.

Every time I hear the words Conservatory and Flamenco in the same sentence I fidget and can't figure out how to express my displeasure without being offensive.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 16 2015 2:31:26