THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE"

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JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE"

Okay, so I've been hanging around on the foro for quite a while now. And one of the words that comes up regularly is "DUENDE". One example would be something that another member said about Carlos Montoya: "the guy plays with not much duende".

I'm guessing that literally translated, "duende" means something like "feeling". But as I'm not what you might call "a natural musician", I think I have trouble recognising when someone is playing with duende. for example, Carlos Montoya... I couldn't rightly say whether the guy had duende or not.

It would be a great help if anyone could explain to me exactly what duende is, and how one can recognise it. Also, is it possible to play with duende whilst playing a piece of music (or tab) that is not your own? And if so, how does one know what the "correct" duende is? Or doesn't it matter, as long as there is some sort of duende?

Sorry if it sounds like a silly question, but I'm really quite ignorant concerning this subject.

Thanks!!!

James

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2006 19:03:23

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to JBASHORUN)

LOL if I remember right, Ricardo gave a definition on it somewhere on the foro. He said something like: "Duende is: compas + feeling + technique + ..."

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2006 19:15:44

fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Duende also means dwarf in spanish...but Im pretty sure that theyre talking about the OTHER duende

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2006 19:22:45

Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to JBASHORUN)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2006 20:00:44

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Hi james

This is what Lorca had to say in his lecture about Duende that he gave in Havana.
http://www.musicpsyche.org/Lorca-Duende.htm

Kate

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2006 20:04:14

Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to JBASHORUN)

quote:

It would be a great help if anyone could explain to me exactly what duende is, and how one can recognise it.

Do the hairs on your arm stand up, like a ghost might be behind you, when you hear a certain flamenco piece? That is duende.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2006 20:17:34

Tenshu

Posts: 150
Joined: Oct. 18 2003
From: Belgium

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Duende is me crying like a little girl the first time I heard Camaron. Often times I still have to fight it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2006 20:25:41

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Hmmm...Duende to me means when someone communicates directly with your inner self, without the need for any intellectual analysis.
It's present in all man-made works, not just Flamenco.
I remember seeing some roughly-drawn sketches on little pieces of paper by Michelangelo in the Prado in Madrid.
I had a "duende" kind of feeling then too...

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2006 20:34:04

ricecrackerphoto

Posts: 265
Joined: Feb. 5 2006

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to JBASHORUN)

this is what merriam webster says:

Main Entry: du·en·de
Pronunciation: dü-'en-(")dA
Function: noun
Etymology: Spanish dialect, charm, from Spanish, ghost, goblin, probably from duen de casa, from dueño de casa owner of a house
: the power to attract through personal magnetism and charm

whether or not this is what is meant re: flamenco, i like the definition a lot.

doug

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 11 2006 22:21:58

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to JBASHORUN)

The way I understand it, Lorca coined the term to mean "that special feeling you get in flamenco".

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 12 2006 5:02:03

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Duende is just a spanish word used in flamenco for transporting "emotion" to the audience with something you are doing. It dont have to be flamenco, when its not flamenco its duende, too but it has just a different name (f.e. feeling). . Its hyped to much I think. Some month ago I saw a tango argentino performence and it has very much duende, too.
If you fall in love with a girl, all what she does will have duende for you IMO. The way she walks, talks and all other stuff, too.

Oh I didnt read the texts above. Now I did and see, many people have the same opinion.

I have to add something.
All the ghost storys and the mystic stuff is nonsense IMO.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 12 2006 9:26:17

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Doitsujin
All the ghost storys and the mystic stuff is nonsense IMO.

Well, someone will have a nightmare with goblins and dwarfs tonight!

Dont talk like that dude! They will come and getcha

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 12 2006 10:54:38

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria

The way I understand it, Lorca coined the term to mean "that special feeling you get in flamenco".

No, the word existed long before Lorca wrote about it in his essay 1933. In a previous essay on Cante Jondo which Lorca made a study of he does not mention duende and Ian Gibson makes the conclusion that Lorca only came across the word/concept at the Concurso in Granada 1922. In his essay quotes the cantaor Manuel Torres ( who he met at the Concurso) as saying " Whatever has black sounds has duende".

To quote Gibson " for Lorca duende came to denote a form of Dionysian inspiration always related to anguish, mystery and death and which animates particularly the artist who performs in public - the musician, the dancer or the poet"

Kate

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 12 2006 11:48:16

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Thanks everyone... some useful and fascinating information here.

I think I now have a much better understanding of Duende. If I'm right, I feel a sense of duende when listening to the first track on Manolo sanlucar's "Tauromagia".

Gotta be careful though, the sensation can be quite addictive!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 12 2006 12:33:42

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to JBASHORUN)

@Deniz (Just joking

)

Hey where did you get the photo of my friend Eugen? I shocked him on the toilet some years ago. He was so shocked that he fell down backwards from the toilet. I heared he only have the heart to sit on the toilet since this day if his grandmother holds his hand. hehe It would be nice if he would come to me this night. Hes a funny nice ehh.. person. If he comes I hope he has his playboycollection in his case.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 12 2006 15:22:41

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Ahaha, well done Doitsujin! It looks really like a realistic scene!

BTW, It seems you know how to deal with Photoshop.

Ps: Now everybody knows what Duende is!! Our friend Eugen at least has found it out LooL!

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 12 2006 16:27:39

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to Doitsujin)

quote:

If you fall in love with a girl, all what she does will have duende for you IMO.

I never remember getting a stiffy listening to Paco. Not that it's not possible though...

The closest thing I could compare to duende was when I dropped acid as a teenager.

Sounds stupid, but listening to music on acid will let you sense every single little bit of beauty and magic in the music leaving you in a trance. To some degree that's duende. Either that or I just get flashbacks from time to time

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2006 16:04:22

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to John O.)

quote:

Sounds stupid, but listening to music on acid will let you sense every single little bit of beauty and magic in the music leaving you in a trance.

Hmm. Apparently, when you take acid or LSD, just about EVERYTHING has duende! My violin teacher told me a story about how he took it once, and whilst on his way home he became "fascinated" by the clock at the railway station. It was one of those mechanical digital ones... made up of small slots for each section of each digit (the digit is "8" by default, but some sections are obscured to produce a different shape depending on the time). anyway, he said he was there for about an hour, just staring at this clock in amazement, as he had never really considered the way it works.

Well, after hearing the story, I don't think I'm in any hurry to mix music and drugs. But I do see the link between the the two.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 13 2006 17:23:41

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Yeah, not a good idea. It's not worth frying your brain up. LSD has done a lot for rock music, but I'm not sure if it'd be a creative help in flamenco. Maybe some speed, though...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 14 2006 16:13:57

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to JBASHORUN)

In researching guitars I read somewhere that duende is a quality people look for in guitars. A criticism of a factory-made guitar would be that 'no tiene duende' or it doesn't have soul.

While mythologically duendes are supposed to physically resemble gobblins or trolls (e.g. the GAP troll), I understood that they were more akin to sprites or dryads. I guess like a spirit that inhabits a place or thing.

At least that's the understanding I came to when I was learning Spanish years ago. I was curious about the title of a Gypsy Kings instrumental piece called 'Duende.' No one was able to give me a really good explanation, but after interrogating pretty much every Hispanic I knew, that was the impression I'd formed.

I would understand the presence or absence of duende to refer to spirit or soul. When the sound of the music or instrument seems to be embued with a life of its own. Which is the goal of every player and luthier.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2006 4:22:56

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to Exitao)

Hey, lately i am of the impression that duende is nothing more than perfect timing and tone if u brake it right down.

U can be in compas or u can be IN COMPAS.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 17 2006 16:43:44

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to Florian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian

Hey, lately i am of the impression that duende is nothing more than perfect timing and tone if u brake it right down.

U can be in compas or u can be IN COMPAS.

Welcome back Florian. Hate to disagree with you when you just got back but what you refer to above is perfection and duende is more like magic, it doesn't have to be perfect, just have spirit/feeling. Duende is considered more like a religious experience.

Kate

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 17 2006 17:19:47

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Yeah really? Can something have duende without beeing in compas?

OK guys, we can stop the excersizes!

Just a joke.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 17 2006 17:23:06

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Going along with the loner discussion, I feel duende can be very personal, or in the the collective when one loner is able to transmit that feeling to other loners. Like a sort of co-miseration between folks. It is amazing when in a room full of individuals and you can just tell EVERYONE feels it. That is why the juerga is so important.

In indian music they have modes and rhythms that create a mood or feeling. You just melt inside the music, each note has certain emotive power. In flamenco, Duende is like the collection of these elements: the mode, harmony, melody, rhythm, dynamics, etc not just one thing. The build up step of the dancer is a way to try to force the duende to come out, building intensity. The singer sustaining a single high note is an other. The guitarist makes a loud rapid rasgueado. Everything made of the individual elements coming together.

It does not always come out, but it is the ultimate purpose. I really feel Duende is specific to flamenco. Other music's have moods and special magic moments. Paul Gilbert, metal guitarist, used to describe certain virtuoso players as "terrifying", making him fall to his knees shivering. That type of thing is what the solo flamenco guitar has to offer, and is a big part of "duende", but not the only thing. La Paquera is "terrifying" , but Estrella Morente makes you "melt". Both have duende. Paul Gilbert is "terrifying", but he does not have duende. He would probably if he could play real flamenco.

Anyway, just my personal view. (do I really need to say THAT?)

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 17 2006 17:26:43

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to Kate)

Kate

hello

and thank you

quote:

Hate to disagree with you

its quite fine, every opinion i have is very much open to discussion

I see what you are saying and understand , but there is no magic, every trick a magician does has a A to B explonation to it :-) If i pull a rabit out of a hat is because i place it there before the show

Same goes for guitar everything has a A to B progression and explonation to it.

Magic to you, might just be perfect timing and tone to a guitarist

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 17 2006 17:31:29

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to Florian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian
Magic to you, might just be perfect timing and tone to a guitarist

No, the magic is when when time stands still and you feel a presence of something higher. Perfect timing and tone is an everyday occurence among the flamencos I know but duende is beyond that.

Kate

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 17 2006 17:56:30

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to Kate)

I know what you are saying kate and on a different day i might agree with you but i think that litlle "everyday occurences" placed togheder with the right combination make for big things, thus " Magic"

We use words like "Magic", to give name to things we either dont understand or we refuse to brake it down and find out whats making it magic.

When a guitarist starts out he has no duende, but some find it after years of playing, why is that ? because they make better use of tone and compas etc..

there is no magic to it, is just more experience.

I am not refering to cante or dance i am strictly speaking guitar.

but again, everything i tought i belived and known all my life has always changed, so i might feel compleatly different tomarow :-)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 17 2006 18:25:02

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

She's got it (?) THE ESSENCE OF &quo... (in reply to Ricardo)

I have to share this article on the ever so contentious and never settled subject of "Duende". This fellow lawyer, turned novelist, should have read some posts here before writing.... This is the quickly gained expertise of music tourists,
WSJ:
"It is what the Spanish call duende—a heightened emotion brought about by the song; a state of ecstasy, of “having soul.” In those moments, I could feel centuries of history come alive right before me. And I was reminded that our most basic instinct—self-preservation—requires not vanquishing others, but being one with them."
[Ms. Zourkova is a finance lawyer whose first novel, “Wildalone,” was published last week]
http://www.wsj.com/articles/novelist-krassi-zourkova-on-the-intoxicating-power-of-dance-1421432693

I like Ricardo's view on Duende:
"Like a sort of co-miseration between folks." [See above]

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 17 2015 22:32:01

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to JBASHORUN)

Duende has always meant to me "(doing something with) soul". Literally I believe it means gnome.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2015 13:19:21

runner

Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA

RE: THE ESSENCE OF "DUENDE" (in reply to JBASHORUN)

This article in Frontiers of Psychology does a pretty good job of describing those psychophysiological phenomena that are often characterized as being elements of duende. I think that "duende" will be found to be a near-universal ingredient in musics from all over the world, and it will be very difficult for proponents of duende as a phenomenon unique to flamenco to prove their thesis.

http://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4107937/

runner

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jan. 18 2015 14:33:22