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Truss Rod?   You are logged in as Guest
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polishcomedy

 

Posts: 66
Joined: Feb. 7 2009
From: Orlando

Truss Rod? 
All my guitars except my flamenco have a truss rod in it (even my classical guitar). I have a Francisco Navarro Concert. You would think a guitar of that caliber would have one, but I'm wondering how necessary it is. Do you guys have them? If the intonation goes off what recourse do I have?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 4 2009 0:24:39
 
Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
My luthier-built does not have a truss rod. It does have some form of graphite reinforcement.

I was under the impression that it's unusual for classicals and flamencos ot have truss rods.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 4 2009 1:35:37
 
Escribano

Posts: 6415
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
There are usually a couple of reinforcements running in channels under the fingerboard.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 4 2009 8:31:52
 
bugeyed

 

Posts: 56
Joined: Aug. 24 2009
From: Conroe, Texas

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
Intonation? I don't think a truss rod is for fixing that. It's for the neck relief. Intonation does not "go off" unless it's the strings changing or the nut or saddle wear out.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 4 2009 16:09:30
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
there's also the issue of added weight. i think if your neck relief is way out of whack, then it can hurt the intonation a little bit. but in general, the truss rod isnt for intonation issues.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 4 2009 18:03:24
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
Truss rods reinforce steel string instruments, but to put one in a nylon string instrument is, well, sort of cheesy.

Ricardo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 6 2009 11:55:10
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to Ricardo) 
Yes steel strung guitars need them because the tension in the neck is so great that the neck would bend without it.
But in nylon strung guitars it just isn't necessary.
Relief is built in to the neck/fingerboard and as long as the wood is stable that should be the end of it.
Some makers, but not all, add reinforcing strips into the neck, sometimes visible sometimes not. Some makers regard this as unnecessary if good stable wood is used in the first place.

Having said all that some makers do add a truss rod eg

http://www.hillguitar.com/

I'm not sure why??

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 6 2009 23:56:23
 
HemeolaMan

Posts: 1514
Joined: Jul. 13 2007
From: Chicago

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
truss rods is fo chumps yo.

wow just kidding.

yes stable wood should be the end of it. I have a guitar with graphite reinforcements. This is because it was made in the middle of mexico where the climate is rather different. Thats pretty much the only reason I can think of for using it.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2009 8:23:47
 
polishcomedy

 

Posts: 66
Joined: Feb. 7 2009
From: Orlando

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
I didn't mean intonation, actually. Not sure why I put that. I live in Florida, which is quite humid, and lately I haven't been keeping the guitar in its case. The air conditioning is generally on in the house, though, and I think dry air is more of a concern than humid. I guess as you guys say nylon strings don't have the same pull of the neck. I wonder why my classical has a truss rod. That would explain why it's a bit heavier than the flamenco.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2009 9:25:10
 
joseglez

 

Posts: 26
Joined: Sep. 1 2008
From: San Juan, Puerto Rico

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
I have a Takamine classical that has a truss rod and it's only adding unnecessary weight.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2009 10:55:16
 
Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to HemeolaMan) 
quote:

ORIGINAL: HemeolaMan

truss rods is fo chumps yo.

wow just kidding.

yes stable wood should be the end of it. I have a guitar with graphite reinforcements. This is because it was made in the middle of mexico where the climate is rather different. Thats pretty much the only reason I can think of for using it.



My understanding was that this kind of reinforcement allowed for luthiers to build with thinner/lighter necks than previously...

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2009 11:30:20
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
You can be sure that any classical or flamenco guitar with a truss rod is not worth the wood it's made of.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 13 2009 8:49:58
 
Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to Ramon Amira) 
quote:

You can be sure that any classical or flamenco guitar with a truss rod is not worth the wood it's made of.

Not so. Some of the best classical guitars have truss rods.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 13 2009 9:36:26
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to Estevan) 
Please name some.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 13 2009 19:13:00
 
at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to Ramon Amira) 
quote:

Please name some.

kenny hill

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 13 2009 20:10:37
 
krichards

Posts: 597
Joined: Jan. 14 2007
From: York, England

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to at_leo_87) 
I'd still like to know why

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 13 2009 23:13:24
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to at_leo_87) 
I have heard several Kenny Hill guitars in person, and it's not that they are bad guitars, they're perfectly good guitars for what they are, but I can't say that I was very impressed. You said, "Some of the best classical guitars have truss rods." I personally don't consider a Kenny Hill guitar as among the best, and I continue to believe that a fine luthier guitar does not require, nor should ever have, a truss rod.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 14 2009 6:14:15
 
Estevan

Posts: 1936
Joined: Dec. 20 2006
From: Torontolucía

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to Ramon Amira) 
quote:

[PC:] Please name some.

Greg Smallman, Ian Kneipp, John Price, Jim Redgate, Graham Caldersmith, and probably a number of other Australian makers.

quote:

[Kevin R.:] I'd still like to know why

I don't know all the technicalities but broadly speaking Smallman's idea was to pursue Torres's notion of the top being all-important, so he developed a way of building in which the top is extremely light (less than 1mm thick, with carbon-reinforced balsa lattice bracing) and the rest of the instrument is made heavier and solider than traditional in order to stop the vibration from dissipating through any part but the top, and putting a truss rod in the neck is part of the formula. A lot of luthiers (particularly in Australia) have adopted their own versions of Greg's innovations.
Somewhere on the web there's an interview with Jim Redgate who has his own related explanation.
The method has produced some extraordinary classical guitars, but I don't think it would work for flamenco.

quote:

[PC:] I continue to believe that a fine luthier guitar does not require, nor should ever have, a truss rod.


As you like; I believe that those I cited are all fine luthiers.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 14 2009 9:26:56
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to Estevan) 
Well, certainly the top is all important, as Manuel Ramirez demonstrated with his famous 1862 guitar made with papier mache back and sides. So there may be something to be said, as you point out, from stopping the vibrations from dissipating through anything but the top. I'm not sure I see why a truss rod would be necessary in addition to the other innovations. But apart from that there is a question of esthetics. I personally shudder to think of a piece of steel running through the neck of a fine guitar. And even though, as Manuel Reyes points out, "sound starts at the hueso cejilla," Spanish luthiers are loath to put metal of any kind on a guitar, even machine tuners. But of course these days it's commonplace. I suspect, though, that you would be hard pressed to find a skilled Spanish luthier putting in a truss rod. And no, none of this could ever work for a flamenco guitar.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 14 2009 10:24:13
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
If I am not mistaken, it was Antonio de Torres who in 1862 demonstrated the importance of the top by making a guitar with paper mache back and sides.

Cheers,

Bill

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 14 2009 11:17:45
 
Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to Ramon Amira) 
quote:

Spanish luthiers are loath to put metal of any kind on a guitar, even machine tuners.


What about the frets?

The reason why truss rods are not common is that most builders regard them as unnecessary. But if you are actively trying to add weight to the guitar as Estevan explained I can see the reason for it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 14 2009 11:36:29
 
Ramon Amira

 

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to BarkellWH) 
My mistake - it was Torres. I was thinking of the time that Manuel Ramirez got hold of some Torres labels, and lightly glued them inside two of his own guitars. Then he announced the discovery of two previously unknown Torres guitars, and had an invited audience listen to them. After the enthusiastic praise for the great Torres guitars died down, Ramirez tore off the labels to reveal his own.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 14 2009 19:03:45
 
Guitarsid

Posts: 52
Joined: Aug. 5 2013
From: Maryland USA

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
quote:

I'm wondering how necessary it is. Do you guys have them?


My Cordoba has a truss rod, it is absolutely great, and it is about time a nylon builder finally has recognized and accepted the overwhelming advantages they provide, with no disadvantages whatsoever, positively none.
But old traditions are sacrosanct and it will be a very long time before most will ever come around.
Obviously, you can make nylon guitars without them and get by, but you can make them much better by installing one. In some instances, a simple turn of the allen wrench will do the same as what removing the frets, planing the board, and thus changing the neck thickness, reinstalling the frets, redressing, and in the process, eliminate the cost, labor, downtime involved. It allows for tweaks when the wood moves, when different tension strings are used, and it provides opposing resistance to the string tension which results in more stability over the entire life of the guitar's neck. And nylons do exert more than enough pressure to induce a front bow and to distort the profile with time.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 4 2013 17:25:59
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to polishcomedy) 
When you hold a flamenco in the "traditional method" (balance on your thigh) you can tell there's a truss rod. I notice it on my friends Cordoba every time I play it. It feels unbalanced and I have to switch to PDL style of holding it which kills my legs cus I'm a fatty.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 4 2013 17:32:50
 
Guitarsid

Posts: 52
Joined: Aug. 5 2013
From: Maryland USA

RE: Truss Rod? (in reply to Leñador) 
A reinforcing truss rod can be installed that weighs no more than other inserted reinforcement, especially ebony, and not near the weight difference in a spanish cedar with a rosewood fretboard vs a mahogany neck with an ebony fretboard.
Lighter weight necks benefit from a truss rod even more than heavier necks such as mahogany/ebony.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 4 2013 17:37:09
 
cookieshoes

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 16 2013 4:23:42
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