Solea falsetas based on D minor

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tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

Solea falsetas based on D minor

Most common chords are of course Am, C, G, E and F in solea but is D minor also used? Because I saw one guitarist(Ricardo de la juana) doing a really nice alzapua falseta and it seemed to be based on D minor and it sounded pretty traditional... If you have any tabs of Dm based falsetas please share.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2013 14:09:29

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Solea falsetas based on D minor (in reply to tele)

D minor can substitute for F anywhere.

So Am G7 F E7 can become Am G7 Dm E7

also it can precede G7 thus Am Dm G7 F7 E7

Although the key centre for solea is generally E7 the related major is C so all sorts of standard harmony gets shoehorned in. Dm is the two of the two five one in C.

Most common though and what I imagine you are thinking about is a 'bitonal' approach which is really common. Maybe beats one to nine on D minor resolving to E7 ten to twelve. Think of this as an abbreviated andalucian cadence (F to E7) with the D minor substituting for F.

All of these relate strongly to an overall key centre of E. The heirarchy of tonal relationships for flamenco are different than for classical or jazz harmony. There is a lot of overlap but a bid part of flamenco style is in the deviation. I suppose I am saying that it probably wasn't in the key of D minor at all.

Hope that helps.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2013 14:44:14

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Solea falsetas based on D minor (in reply to guitarbuddha)

It might be that it was not complete Dm..

Is there some kind of a pattern on which chords sound good after each other, like in most music?

Here is something similar at 4:45:

BTW does anyone know where I might find tab for that? Also the alzapua falseta sounds really good at the end altough it certainly takes good skills to learn...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2013 14:54:18

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Solea falsetas based on D minor (in reply to tele)

Hi tele. Thats a classic ! Love that falseta.

It is on the pattern I mentiond above.
Beats 1-9 Dm/E (tenth position without capo), 10-12 E7.

Sounds good in half compas too, three beats of Dm followed by three of E7. Experiment with different scales over the Dm but always fall back on flamenco mode for E7.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2013 15:00:04

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Solea falsetas based on D minor (in reply to tele)

Oops, just read your post and realised that you were taliing about a different part. I thought you meant the start.

Ok in that part there is a temporary modulation to the flamenco mode of A (por medio). Learn some tangos and then segue into those chord progressions from E (por arriba).

Here Paco uses a pivot chord which is F7 to do this trick. It has a function in both flamenco modes. He builds up tension so that the following Por arriba stuff seems to resolve even though the home key has changed, neat trick.

I think he got this from playing Fandangos for cameron por medio which suited Camaron's voice.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2013 15:11:23

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Solea falsetas based on D minor (in reply to guitarbuddha)

I love the Oscar Herrero/Claude Worms books. I would recommend strongly the one on Solea and Seguiriuya which has loads of examples of the kind of thing you are talking about.

The Herrero books are not well supported on the foro which baffles me. Since Claude Worms makes a valiant attempt to offer harmonic analysis for the examples you might like the approach.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2013 15:17:44

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Solea falsetas based on D minor (in reply to tele)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

Most common chords are of course Am, C, G, E and F in solea but is D minor also used? Because I saw one guitarist(Ricardo de la juana) doing a really nice alzapua falseta and it seemed to be based on D minor and it sounded pretty traditional... If you have any tabs of Dm based falsetas please share.

Nuñez has some nice sections that start on D minor and go to E phrygian. Here is some of it broken up from 4:36 inter cut to the end.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2013 17:16:40

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Solea falsetas based on D minor (in reply to guitarbuddha)

quote:

ORIGINAL: guitarbuddha

I love the Oscar Herrero/Claude Worms books. I would recommend strongly the one on Solea and Seguiriuya which has loads of examples of the kind of thing you are talking about.

The Herrero books are not well supported on the foro which baffles me. Since Claude Worms makes a valiant attempt to offer harmonic analysis for the examples you might like the approach.

D.

I have the oscar herrero solea books "palo by palo series" and they are very helpful to learn some solea building blocks.

Its quite interesting that paco modulates to por medio, but also the reason it might sound so well flowing is that theres only one (or maybe two) notes that are out of the A minor/E phrygian scale, and this seems pretty common in solea, to use couple notes outside the basic scale.

While we are at it, can someone list the names of pacos most famous solea songs? I might be able then to find one or two paco solea falsetas from the web.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2013 18:45:34

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Solea falsetas based on D minor (in reply to tele)

I just checked the Claude Worms/Oscar Herrero book on Solea and there is actually only one example of an allusion to Por Medio by (in the style of) Paco and it is on page36/37.

I misremembered and thought there were more.

D.

Happy hunting.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2013 19:44:50

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: Solea falsetas based on D minor (in reply to tele)

As an ambiguous Dmin/F6, it's in the 7-8-9 of rasgueados, arpeggios, etc. of Niño Ricardo, Melchor, probably goes back to Montoya. As Dmin, falsetas of Diego del Gastor, Marote, Pepe Habichuela...lots of players.

If you play Gmin por medio, why not Dmin por arriba?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2013 21:27:52

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Solea falsetas based on D minor (in reply to NormanKliman)

quote:

If you play Gmin por medio, why not Dmin por arriba?

Maybe because there isnt a good bass movement for that chord in standard tuning. Ive noticed that if playing por arriba and coming to E from a Dmin I wont be playing the 6th and 5th strings because it kinda ruins the voice leading for me.

Anyways, in flamenco I feel that Gmin por medio is just a different flavor of Bb. Its not the same effect as playing the minor 7th degree going to the tonic in a metal riff

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2013 22:04:24

chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010

RE: Solea falsetas based on D minor (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

Maybe because there isnt a good bass movement for that chord in standard tuning. Ive noticed that if playing por arriba and coming to E from a Dmin I wont be playing the 6th and 5th strings because it kinda ruins the voice leading for me.

You know that you don't have to play all the strings all the time?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 7 2013 23:38:33

guitarbuddha

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007

RE: Solea falsetas based on D minor (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rui Martins

Maybe because there isnt a good bass movement for that chord in standard tuning. Ive noticed that if playing por arriba and coming to E from a Dmin I wont be playing the 6th and 5th strings because it kinda ruins the voice leading for me.

I have been a bit lazy about checking my facts before posting this I did check it out on the old guitar. You can force yourself to accept Dm6 in first inversion (and not hear it as some kind of F chord)by doing this. Am G7 F/A E7/G# Em7b5/G A7b5/G Dm6/F. Kind of weird but a nice low bass note for the D chord and the II ii V ahead of it kind of insists that you hear it as some kind of D. Also a nice long walk to build an original falseta on. But not so long as to destroy the overall E tonality, which you can go directly back to.

If you want Gm to sound like a G minor and not a B6/G transpose the above. Much simpler though just play a D7b9/F# in front of it.

Just some suggestions, hope you have some fun with them.

D.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2013 0:07:32

Sr. Martins

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RE: Solea falsetas based on D minor (in reply to chester)

quote:

You know that you don't have to play all the strings all the time?

So...

What did I say?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2013 12:26:35

Erik van Goch

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Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at May 8 2013 20:18:46

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 8 2013 20:13:58

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Solea falsetas based on D minor (in reply to tele)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

While we are at it, can someone list the names of pacos most famous solea songs? I might be able then to find one or two paco solea falsetas from the web.

Anyone? Im sure everybody knows at least one

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2013 11:47:04

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Solea falsetas based on D minor (in reply to tele)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

quote:

ORIGINAL: tele

While we are at it, can someone list the names of pacos most famous solea songs? I might be able then to find one or two paco solea falsetas from the web.

Anyone? Im sure everybody knows at least one

Gitanos Trianeros
Cuando canta el Gallo
Plaza Alta
Solea (Live teatro real)
Gloria al Niño Ricardo
La Villa Vieja

Many versions for cante accomp, I like couple things he does for Niño de Barbate.
THe best solea version for me of his accompaniment are however POR MEDIO. He has also a couple solos of buleria por solea/solea por medio:
Celosa
Solera
Antonia

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 10 2013 13:36:41