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I've been learning flamenco for about 13 months now and I'm having difficulty with focused proper practice. I know HOW to do slow focused technique work and play with a metronome etc. My problem comes with actually what to devote time into. I feel that a highly structured practice time is the best way to improve technique.
Unfortunately most days I only have about an hour or two at best on weekdays. Lots of time on the weekends though. Ideally I'd like to get in 1-2 each weekday and 4-8 on weekends.
I don't really know where to start in terms of actually creating a structured plan to get 4-8 hours of solid practice in.
Heres an example of what I'd do for say an hour currently:
5 minutes of some kind of finger stretching/warmup exercises 5-15 minutes on one or more techniques played frustratingly slowly (ie 5 minutes of tremolo, 5 of al zapua, 5 arpeggio, rusgeado etc....) 15 minutes of compas work (currently doing a lot of 12 beat stuff) to a metronome (flamenco master or the mundobeat metronome) at relatively slow speed (60-80BPM on the FM program) 10-15 minutes of picado drills (ie chromatic scale runs to a metronome at slow/moderate tempo) 10-15 minutes on whatever repertoire stuff I'm working on right now
If I were to do two hours that day I'd probably just double the times or repeat the whole hour sometime later on in the day.
Beyond that there's still fretboard memorization which admittedly I rarely work on. I would really appreciate some input on anything that may be missing here.
I'm also not sure about dividing practice time into smaller frequent chunks throughout the day versus largeblocks (ie 6 sessions @ 20 minutes versus one two hour block all at once) Would love to hear some opinions on this.
RE: Structered and focused practice (in reply to altima88)
I was having the same problems, then someone pointed out a search on practice brings up all kinds of advice.'Keep at it', 'anything is better than nothing', and some really detailed routines
IMO I think find some repertoire songs that use multiple techniques and devote a little more time on repertoire. I feel like people emphasize drilling too much. Technique transitions and making things sound musical is important. Don't get me wrong, I'll drill techniques but it's a fraction of overall playing time.
Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Structered and focused practice (in reply to altima88)
quote:
15 minutes of compas work (currently doing a lot of 12 beat stuff) to a metronome (flamenco master or the mundobeat metronome) at relatively slow speed (60-80BPM on the FM program)
I would increase this DRASTICALLY. in fact at your level almost ALL your time should be focused here. I recommend just a basic click over the potty training metronomes for learning and practicing...although later when you are more advanced and actually playing stuff for performance they are fun to use. You can double time the click if you prefer (eighth notes) up to about the tempo of 200 at which point you need to feel the click at 100 and play at the same tempos. OF course if you are already very good at subdividing perfectly to just a slow click you are way ahead in the game.
RE: Structered and focused practice (in reply to Ricardo)
Thank you Ricardo.
I 100% agree with you. I actually just got done a half hour of horrible stressful compas practice. Do you have any suggestions on HOW to practice with the metronome?
For instance my practice session just now I had it set to 12,3,6,8,10 at a very slow 60bpm and would try to lock onto the metronome while having the mutred for a bit. when i had that done i would hold down one chord. after that two chords switching on the 3 and 10. then add in the ramate. followed by trying not to repeat two bars in a row. followed by throwing in a falseta
Just curious but why do you suggest a straight click over one that accents the proper beats?
RE: Structered and focused practice (in reply to altima88)
quote:
ORIGINAL: altima88
If I were to do two hours that day I'd probably just double the times or repeat the whole hour sometime later on in the day.
/quote]
In case you plan the second option make sure you have a gab of at least 6 hours in between...that's the amount of time your brain needs to evaluate the first set (it even does that when you switched to totally different activities). If you repeat the same stuff while that "6 hour evaluation-procedure" is still in progress you will disturb or even destroy the results of the first set and your good intentions will turn out to be contra productive.....but you can safely study other things on your guitar if you want (as long as you avoid doing the same stuff within 6 hours)...so you can do exercises in the first hour, work on falseta's/compas or other exercises in the 4th hour and return to the first exercises in the 7th hour.
This rules when you try to absorb new information....once it became part of your system you can repeat it whenever you like, however the purpose of on-focus exercising is to explore/absorb new info and as such that material needs a 6 hour intermezzo before it might be touched again.
Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Structered and focused practice (in reply to altima88)
quote:
Just curious but why do you suggest a straight click over one that accents the proper beats?
Part of my never ending concern for early level students to develop a sense of tempo and groove. The potty training metronomes that spoon feed accent patterns and deliver contra tiempo on a silver platter IMO force students to internalize the phrase of accents and in the end, almost invariably, they end up always lacking in the groove department because they have learned that compas is "chasing accents". It's not really about that. THe accents come out naturally AFTER you have control over tempo and groove. To learn in the reverse order is back peddling IMO and practice time wasted. A simple click metronome forces you to develop control over subdivision which is the key to having a precise groove and proper feeling for compas (soniquete).
Here was a good topic where the bass player in first post of the thread shows how to use and ultimately ween yourself off the metronome. The entire thread woudl be good to review IMO>
RE: Structered and focused practice (in reply to Erik van Goch)
Thanks Erik and Ricardo this is amazing advice!
So some immediate changes I'm going to take away are
-devote a much larger time to compas. Going to try to make it 50-75% of my practice time for the next bit and see how that goes
-use a straight click rather than an accented metronome.
I have a feeling that a straight click is going to frustrate me quite a bit.. Not that I'm afraid of a little bit of frustration. Frustrating practice is usually the most beneficial!
Would an accented metronome not better emulate playing with a percussionist or dancers though?
Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Structered and focused practice (in reply to altima88)
quote:
Would an accented metronome not better emulate playing with a percussionist or dancers though?
THey do of course...but you won't be playing with any dancers or percussionists of any merit if you don't have good time. The click will help you in a way that you feel supported by them, not that you have to find a way to fit what you play over them. Hope that makes sense. If you develop this chasing the percussionist thing with a percussion loop or flamenco metronome, what happens is if you don't really have solid time alone, then when you play with real people they will just stop if you go off at all (unlike your flamenco metronome that keeps on ticking).
When you develop good time and play more and more advanced music, with better and better level percussionists, you discover that often you don't even WANT to listen to each others accents, rather just lock into the common pulse or beat. That is what you should develop with the click cuz in flamenco, you often don't even HEAR the pulse, it is felt only or perhaps a foot tap while the percussive sounds are all over the place with off beats up beats contra tiempos etc.
RE: Structered and focused practice (in reply to altima88)
If you start playing with dancers, they're going to be beginners, and you have to have a strong compas because they are going to be everywhere. Think wooden rain drops......
RE: Structered and focused practice (in reply to altima88)
I found it helpful when I really took in the fact that 12,3,7,8,10 are 'accents', they are not the groove.
I think José Luís Rodríguez explains this well with reference to bulerias:
I find it useful to practice timing (in order of difficulty) with a metronome click for every beat , then for 12,2,4,6,8,10 then clicks for 12,3,6,9 then for 6 and 12 then 12 then every other 12
I also find flamenco metronomes a waste of time because the goal is the ability to generate soniquete with my playing from inside me not by relying on a backing track or singer or dancer or palmero/percussionist. It's often the guitarist's job to hold it down; I just came back from being the guitarist at a juerga in Triana -great to have palmas but I sometimes had to control the tempo for sake of the singer. With 60 people doing palmas I need to generate a solid groove from within me, not rely on outside. I didn't do too badly but my timing can always improve. I tend to rush, practicing with lots of space between metronome marked beats helps me to get more solid internal time.
RE: Structered and focused practice (in reply to rickm)
quote:
ORIGINAL: rickm I read once where stevie vai plays 14 hrs a day. no strucutre just plays.
Steve Vai's highly structured 10 hour practice regimen was published in Guitar World in the nineties, I still have it. Him, Satriani and all the high tech players from the period had very detailed approaches to practice and building their chops.
RE: Structered and focused practice (in reply to altima88)
quote:
Part of my never ending concern for early level students to develop a sense of tempo and groove. The potty training metronomes that spoon feed accent patterns and deliver contra tiempo on a silver platter IMO force students to internalize the phrase of accents and in the end, almost invariably, they end up always lacking in the groove department because they have learned that compas is "chasing accents". It's not really about that. THe accents come out naturally AFTER you have control over tempo and groove. To learn in the reverse order is back peddling IMO and practice time wasted. A simple click metronome forces you to develop control over subdivision which is the key to having a precise groove and proper feeling for compas (soniquete).
Question For Ricardo!
So, I guess practicing to Doctor Compas isn't such a good idea??? Oh, and this threaded sounds like the one I post few months ago
I started making better progress with working on compas!! But, sometimes, I feel I like soniquete...Could be I am hard on myself though
RE: Structered and focused practice (in reply to Kalo)
To get your 10,000 hours in to master the instrument, one hour per day works out to 27 years! I think that the best way to get more out of your routine is to practice a lot more. I heard a great player say that he practiced 5 hours per day, but he could have done it in 3 if he were more focused.
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