Remembering my repertoire

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Stu

Posts: 2536
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

Remembering my repertoire

Hi,

I wonder if any of you folk have this problem (if it is one?)

The more material I learn, the more I want to learn. If I'm learning a falseta that I pick up very quickly I want to move on to the next one and so on.

However as I keep learning, I find it hard to remember the previous stuff I've learned (and Ive only been learning flamenco stuff for 6ish years). and without pulling out some tab books its hard to recall. how do the pros manage?

I do remember seeing some advice about never forgetting your old falseta/pieces. but that's hard

At what point can one forget about that grade 1 soleares? if at all?
how much musical info can our brains hold?

Stu

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2008 3:56:48

sig

Posts: 296
Joined: Nov. 7 2007
From: Wisconsin

RE: Remembering my repertoire (in reply to Stu)

Stu,
Great topic!! I was wondering that myself the other day when I was practicing some older material that I had worked on about 3 years ago. Its a Rumba and now my skill level has increased so it's been easier and much more fun to re-learn and play. I have been learning Flamenco for about 6 years as well and I've found that I practice the newest material first, chunk and chain it together so its easier to commit to memory, followed by older material that I already have in my memory banks. I too, am very interested in what more experienced players have to say about this subject.
Sig--

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2008 8:23:14

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Remembering my repertoire (in reply to Stu)

my problem is keeping repetoire sharp, i could practice a falseta all day and by the end of it i could be playing it in compas to a solo compas cd then when i try and do it without the cd it soudns wrong,or fuera de compas plus the technique that might be required in the melody might be off and then i have to go back and rework.

as regards remebering melodies if its by a certain artist i strive to remeber the exact name of the piece,artist and album its from as a kind of mental encoding.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2008 8:36:20

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Remembering my repertoire (in reply to henrym3483)

quote:

i could practice a falseta all day and by the end of it i could be playing it in compas to a solo compas cd then when i try and do it without the cd it soudns wrong,or fuera de compas plus the technique that might be required in the melody might be off and then i have to go back and rework.

This is what I meant in my previous reference to Blugrass.
Until you've got it, you still haven't really got it. (not that I have BTW!)

I think that until you can play naturally, just picking up the guitar and playing some simple stuff with a bit of flavour and panache and en compás, it's still just really a sort of pastiche of Flamenco IMO.

Maybe that's a bit harsh, but sometimes that's how I truly feel.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2008 13:00:25

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Remembering my repertoire (in reply to Stu)

this is an interesting topic

quote:

I do remember seeing some advice about never forgetting your old falseta/pieces. but that's hard

why not ? if you forgheting them it means you are not playing them anymore, if for whatever reason you are not wanting to play them why should it worry you if you forghet them

i have the same problem..id imagine most people would, and i used to get fustrated...but i have to learn new things all the time for playing with dancers and other guitarists, new choreographies, new songs, new falsetas, new intros, new solos..the better u wanna be at them the less time u will spend on stuff that you are not really playing in the near future and the more you will try to perfect them..

i would rather play 2 palos well then mess up 30 but ofcourse it cant always be helped, sometimes cause of time u have to just get trough it, u dont always get the luxury of plenty of time to reherse something..exp in last minute gigs and last minute solos and last minute changes to a choreography

i dont complicate it too much for myself this days...whatever i am playing at the next gig...that's my focus...whatever palo they are doing in classes is what i concetrate on...and whatever palo i seem to be into for myself at home at the time (it changes all the time) thats what i work on..

its all about prioritising ( i got a feeling i fu*ed that word up

) depends on what u are prioritising for... a solo gig, a gig with a dancer, singer...a recording...acompanying in clases, etc..

and if u not getting ready for anything then you can work on whatever your heart desires..but i wouldnt worry too much...unles necesarry practicing or playing something u are not that much into at that time or you are more into something else and only doing it for the sake of not forgheting it dosent sound all that productive..and not that much fun...

write it down and if u need it you will be able to revive it in a day or 2 no big deal

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 27 2008 14:45:28

henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Remembering my repertoire (in reply to Florian)

quote:

This is what I meant in my previous reference to Blugrass.
Until you've got it, you still haven't really got it. (not that I have BTW!)

I think that until you can play naturally, just picking up the guitar and playing some simple stuff with a bit of flavour and panache and en compás, it's still just really a sort of pastiche of Flamenco IMO.

Maybe that's a bit harsh, but sometimes that's how I truly feel.

cheers,

as ricardo said for buleria you really need to develop that internal metronome, that reminds me i must do some uploads

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2008 6:52:56

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Remembering my repertoire (in reply to Stu)

quote:

I find it hard to remember the previous stuff I've learned (and Ive only been learning flamenco stuff for 6ish years). and without pulling out some tab books its hard to recall. how do the pros manage?

I dunno how the real pro's manage, but the thing that works/ed for me is to go play stuff in public. I'm no great player, like not by a long way, but until i've "performed" something i don't really feel i "know" it, and once i play it in public i rarely forget it. of course i still need to gig stuff reasonably regularly or it starts to fade anyway (which is a bit of a problem at the mo 'cos i've moved into the middle of nowhere and haven't found anywhere to play yet). Just find a cafe or restaurant to sit in the corner and play through your repertoire. if they pay you it's a bonus, 'cos you get paid to practise. if you want to make money you want private weddings/parties etc., but you can often pick up those gigs from doing restaurants for next to nothing, and people in for dinner hear you and offer more work.

recording yourself and listening to the recordings (or the cd's you learnt the stuff from in the first place or whatever) regularly helps too.

as for;

quote:

that grade 1 soleares

what you need is to start teaching that stuff to other people, then you are using that stuff all the time and you don't forget it

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 28 2008 10:45:44

miker

Posts: 10
Joined: Dec. 26 2012
From: England N Wales

RE: Remembering my repertoire (in reply to Stu)

I was just thinking of starting a thread about this, your not alone, I feel when I learn a new piece another drops of the end,

I think the key here is not learning actual pieces that you could forget but learning the building blocks (compas,key,cadences)for the different palos so that when you want to play a solea you string it together from these blocks rather than trying to remember an actual series of notes or melodies,

Having said this I learnt a solea from a Juan Martin book from beginning to end, but now my solea is nothing like
What I first learnt because I keep experimenting with different ideas to fit in the compas , though now I feel I don't have a solea I can play from start to finish..but maybe I or we should flow with it rather than trying to have a strict way to get from start to finish

It also feels like I'm playing out of compas as when I learnt it I was counting
But I don't count now, but then I think there comes a point where you feel the compass rather than be concious of it..but I'm probably still out

Ill shut up now

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Michael.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2012 15:30:25

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Remembering my repertoire (in reply to Stu)

I don't think you're far off man. I think when one is learning it's good to count so you can associate those numbers with the feel. When I'm in a dance class I'm not counting the whole time, I just feel it, but when the teacher says hit that 6 harder I know where the 6 is and what she means.

As well, I think your on the right track with stringing together compas and falsetas rather then just memorizing songs note for note. It's good to double check yourself all the time though to be sure your always on compas. If you play with other people(dancers & singers) your going to be expected to improvise and that just aint gunna happen no matter how well you can play punta y tacon note for note unless you understand how things come together.

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2012 15:51:23

etta

Posts: 342
Joined: Jan. 20 2010

RE: Remembering my repertoire (in reply to Stu)

When I get a piece the way I want it, or at least close, I record it, name it and number it. I still go back and redo, make revisions, alterations, etc. but at least I have a reference of material I can call up to practice for a gig.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2012 15:52:19

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Remembering my repertoire (in reply to Stu)

quote:

When I get a piece the way I want it, or at least close, I record it, name it and number it. I still go back and redo, make revisions, alterations, etc. but at least I have a reference of material I can call up to practice for a gig.

I call this piece "Alegrias 38554C"

JK, I do something similar to that.

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2012 16:20:01

tele

Posts: 1464
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Remembering my repertoire (in reply to Stu)

I think I truely remember the songs only when they're in my spine(as finnish people say), for example this can be noticed when playing songs from many years ago after a long break. Therefore if you can't completely remember it(My POV) every time you play it, you haven't played it enough.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 28 2012 19:00:59

horationelson

Posts: 21
Joined: Jan. 31 2012

RE: Remembering my repertoire (in reply to Stu)

quote:

think I truely remember the songs only when they're in my spine(as finnish people say), for example this can be noticed when playing songs from many years ago after a long break. Therefore if you can't completely remember it(My POV) every time you play it, you haven't played it enough.

Very true, I have just started playing again after a 40 year break.
Back in the old days you had to learn on the guitar directly from your teacher.
(not from tabs).Now, because it took a fairly long time to accumulate material you would play what you knew over and over and slowly a complete piece would emerge. I can still remember the stuff i learned 40 years ago.

Now that there is so much stuff available that i think people learn a new falsetta
& it goes into short term memory and soon disapears.

Seems the brain has an infinite hard drive capacity, Think i read somewhere that
all you know uses less than 1%.

repetition is the only way to make it permanent and once its in there it stays there forever

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2012 11:30:37

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: Remembering my repertoire (in reply to horationelson)

quote:

repetition is the only way to make it permanent and once its in there it stays there forever

I agree about the importance of repetition but ideas do not stay in my head forever. My memory isn't the best in the world, but it's not so bad either. Drawing a parallel, I've noticed that after living somewhere for 10-15 years and moving to a new town, I'll start to forget the streets (names, layout) of the old town after a few years.

I suppose repetition is the only way, but it's better to have some kind of overview based on the identification of each idea. Other posts have already mentioned this, although I don't think "naming falsetas" is the best way to describe it because you don't have to use words and because the concept applies to ideas that are smaller than falsetas.

Here's what I mean: My playing style alternates basic rhythm (which includes cierres and remates) with falsetas. The ideas are from different players and I don't necessarily try to play them in the same order. I identify the ideas in at least three ways: by creator, by the musical characteristics and by the part of the compas where the idea occurs. So, when I'm playing, I'll try to remember to use all four (the numbers are examples) of my main cierres, three falsetas of Melchor, two falsetas of Paco de Lucía, the end of that last Paco falseta reminds me that there's a cool and musically similar cierre of Enrique de Melchor, etc.

The idea, in other words, is to take inventory of your repertoire in each style and to use it as a sort of checklist.

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Be here now.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2012 18:23:51

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Remembering my repertoire (in reply to Stu)

I think if you can play through everything you have or want to retain once a week or so you will be ok. It's easy to lose stuff fast like in a few months gone. Well not totally gone but you have to practice a bit to find it again. Safer to just run through repertoire whenever you can weekly. I am lucky I play out a lot so I can perform my stuff, because at home I don't get much done anymore. I always have to prepare for a solo concert and realize most of my stuff has disappeared.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2012 19:23:23

FlamencoD

Posts: 113
Joined: Apr. 7 2012
From: Portland, OR

RE: Remembering my repertoire (in reply to Stu)

I like to spend a few minutes warming up with exercises and scales, then spend a few minutes running through previous pieces that I've already learned, then spend the last half of practice working on new material. If you play 2 or 3 old pieces every time you sit down, that only takes a few minutes and it keeps them in the rotation. I enjoy that method because it allows me to have fun with the previous stuff, really concentrating on technique and just enjoying playing the music. I've only played 2 years so I don't know hundreds of pieces but I think it helps me keep the ones from last year fairly fresh.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 29 2012 22:46:13

miker

Posts: 10
Joined: Dec. 26 2012
From: England N Wales

RE: Remembering my repertoire (in reply to FlamencoD)

the thing i have is the pieces i play are never the same as im always tweaking them in small ways , i do believe there is a piece of knowledege one has to learn which will open up a whole load of doors, a bit like learning how a chord is made for example..once you know that suddenly you can work out what notes are in the chord just by its name or visa versa,

i remember not understanding any theory like i didnt understand the differnce between sharps and flats and why some have sharps and not others, but i read and read about it then..click it all made sense..you suddenly realise things like.. E phryg is in the key of C and its relative minor is A.. and that you just sharpen the F and your in Eminor which is the relative of GMaj whos phryg mode is B and thats the granainas mode,

Maybe i dont make sense but its all based on rules and once we understand how those rules work we need not have to worry about rememebering too much as we can piece things together as we go, ...by the way im still waiting to get to this magical point when something clicks

Im probably sounding quite wierd now

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Michael.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 30 2012 1:26:13