Editing Posts and Etiquette

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Kevin

Posts: 294
Joined: Sep. 7 2008

Editing Posts and Etiquette

Hmmm. So I have been taking a lashing for deleting my other account yet people edit their stuff all the time.

I just went back through some threads. A few years ago there were posts on Jose Tanaka and Jason McGuire in which people bashed them. I defended them because I knew them and respected them.

I have a couple of screen shots in MSWord that I saved and they do not match up with what is now there. Some posts are deleted. I assume the edits occurred after Jason joined the forum and people realized what a monster he is.

It is interesting to me that those kind of edits are ok and even go unnoticed but people make assumptions about my particular case just because I happen to be working on the same material I share.

I can't repost these for ethical reasons but these edits seem much more frivolous and self-preservational than mine. So why is it ok that these kinds of edits are ok but mine was not?

Glad I saved those.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2012 19:47:45

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to Kevin)

quote:

Glad I saved those.

What purpose do they serve exactly?

feel free to share if you want unless they are your secret gossip weapons?

I think editing or re wording a post is different than mass deletion. It's ok, in a similar fashion quotes are retained in others responses in many cases so often times full deletions can be infered by replies...but it is a pain in the butt.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2012 20:07:57

chester

Posts: 891
Joined: Oct. 29 2010

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to Kevin)

Hey man -- forget the haters. Mezzo wants to ignore you? Big deal.

As far as I'm concerned you're well within your right do delete or edit your posts. That's why those buttons are there.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2012 20:08:30

Munin

Posts: 595
Joined: Sep. 30 2008
From: Hong Kong

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to Kevin)

Again it's not about what you should or should not do but merely about accepting the flak that you will get when you do certain things.

It's true that there are a lot of people who are guilty of deleting their posts for some reason or another. I don't like that either. But I don't think anyone ever did it systematically like you did. That's all. Again it's well within your right to do that, but then you should be able to deal with the criticism you will get.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2012 20:22:36

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to Ricardo)

OK, if you all wanna know the effin TRUTH about the WHOLE thing as I see it, then here goes and I don't care what ANYBODY thinks......

*************
[deleted]

*************

..yeah, you bet!.....an' that's not even ALL goddamit!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2012 21:05:14

n85ae

Posts: 877
Joined: Sep. 7 2006

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to Kevin)

The reason for the flak is simple. You deleted all your posts, and then came
back shortly thereafter advertising your soon to be commercial website.
Which presumably has material similar to what you had posted here, AND
deleted. Material which until fairly recently was freely perusable here, and
which in the future will have to be paid for at your commercial site.

No matter how you try to explain it, to a great many people it is going to
appear a certain way. Which is going to be other than positive. there's no
amount of explaining you can do that's going to make it look otherwise.

I think your posts are interesting, and I think it sucks you deleted them.
The explanations to me all sound thin, so I'm not buying it. However,
if you quit trying to explain why you did it, and quit trying to sell your
new site I bet the dust would settle a LOT faster.

My brother does wierd stuff too, and has deleted his entire Facebook persona
2-3 times, and he always has these explanations ... They make me roll my eyes, and say Uh-Huh - Keep taking your Xanax.

Cheers,
Jeff

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2012 21:11:35

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to Kevin)

I find all this controversy very strange. Even if he did say "I removed all my stuff from the foro because I want to sell this information so it makes little sense to me having it here for free", I wouldnt bother at all.

He removed it because he could.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2012 21:23:39

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to n85ae)

quote:

My brother does wierd stuff too, and has deleted his entire Facebook persona
2-3 times, and he always has these explanations ...

Cool!

Christ...I wish I could delete the last 35 years of my bloody LIFE and start with a fresh page!

Ahhhhhh....bliss!

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 25 2012 21:25:07

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to Ron.M)

Kevin you dont need to explain yourself or anything anymore mate

you deleted your stuff fine, its yours to delete...people dont like it, fine, i understand (anyone that finds anything interesting here they think they can learn from should be downloading it and saving it to their computer...its what i do anyway, i saved falsetas from you, i saved tutorial video on sound from Todk, i saved Ricardo's flamenco chords and his examples of accompanying...if its an exercise or anything i might wanna learn from later...or something interesting someone said about theory, i make sure i have acces to it when i need it)...but it was yours to delete...that's it , no explonation necessary....even trying to explain or justify i think u did too much and gave them what they think its their right to publicly attack you for it... if i wanted to delete something of mine for whatever reason i would ask for no permission or try to convince people of why if they didn't wanna hear it "i deleted it because it was my post and wanted to...fell free to do whatever you like with your own posts"

Even if the reason is what they are accusing you of ...a business decision

" - Yes it makes no sense to try to charge for it ...my own stuff...when it can be found here for free because i was once generous and wasent planing to do this website or to try and charge."

you didn't have to but tried to offer an explonation they dont wanna believe you or wanna hear it...that's all you can do...the reasons dont really matter, you have the right to do whatever you like with your own shared content

I think its a little unfair of some members here to treat you this way because u chose to delete your own posts...why ? because you once contributed and shared ? if you'd never shared or contributed here there would be no problem...so people are attacking you now for being generous once or for trying to earn some money from knowledge acquired through your own hard work ?

if you gave nothing, did nothing, contributed nothing just lurked..no one would have any reason to attack you...but you chose to get involved and now that makes you the bad guy ?

I can relate to how you are feeling cause Its kind of the same situation i find myself in with a singer in my city....you become the bad guy for doing when u didnt have too

I used her for every single gig, other people didn't, used her when they needed her and when they could get someone else they didnt... so it was all business with them, we formed a friendship, i liked her very much as a person.. but the time came when for reasons beyond my control i couldn't use her for one particular show.( it wasent cause of budget, i would have sacrificed my own to have her in as i always do, i always put my own pay last, to make sure i have a good show first, is cause we were given a set number of performers allowed...and i had to turn the initial group of 11 into 7 so i had to cut a few performers, i hated doing it !! but i had to...others understood ...they probably didn't like it either but understood)..at first i was gonna turn the festival down, in fact i did... because of this restrictions they put on me... but she was one of the people that encouraged me that its a good opportunity for me and to reconsider and do what they ask me..to not let it pass me by

Now... I am !! the worst guy in the world, I am the bad guy....I who used her for every other gig even when I didn't need her cause I had other singers featured that I flew in from interstate, sacrificed my own pay to make sure shes in to out of loyalty and so she dosent feel like I just use her only when i have no other options... but now she will talk to everyone else but me...I am the worst guy for not using her ONCE...than this people that used her only when they needed her and she didn't expect it of them...they are ok, i am the bad guy..i am the one that betrayed her..

the more i tried to explain to her and make her understand the situation and that it was only this one time ...the more she didn't wanna hear it and gave me the cold shoulder ...so i gave up...besides this one show i had never done one without her, she was always the first one i asked..out of everyone doing shows in my city i am the only one that can say that, everyone else used her as they needed her...but that's ok, some battles you just cant win

the more you do and the more u give the more is expected of you... no good deed goes unpunished

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2012 1:41:30

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to Florian)

maybe SHE just used you and her relation to you was not as strong as yours to her? yeah it sucks what happened, but its always good to know, whom you can trust and whom you cant.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2012 10:53:12

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to XXX)

quote:

aybe SHE just used you and her relation to you was not as strong as yours to her? yeah it sucks what happened, but its always good to know, whom you can trust and whom you cant.

thanks for reading and replying man

no to be fair i cant accuse her of that, we were nice friends, she would have done anything for me...part of me understands why it hurt her so much more from me, i guess she never expected it from me... i feel bad about that i wish i was never in the position.

I had the ugliest decision to make...a better more confident and experienced singer that gives it more vs a good friend who is humble, loyal, not as confident and better at some palos than others...i tried to distance myself and make that decision with my brain rather then my heart...figured if i can do the best show i could, i might put myself in a position to get more work...which would have been good for me and her in the long run...i hated having to be the one to make that kind of decision as shes been in flamenco way longer than me..i didn't feel wordy to make that type of decision...but it was up to me to do so

was a tough decision do i pick a loyal and good friend or do i pick someone i know its gonna be better for the show....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2012 15:20:04

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to Florian)

Florian, this was supposed to be Kevin's Rant you hijacker!!!

Seriously, this issue is always a problem in the performance world, even with top artists. One needs to be professional and not take things personal. But it is not easy with artists who are supposed to be sensitive to do a good job anyway. I have learned to make things crystal clear from the start with everybody...here is the list in order of all the performers by level from best to ....students. Any questions? No? great. If the top people are NOT available we work down from there in order. Pretty simple.

The working guitarists married or dating dancers know the issue comes up all the time ....but over the years I have made it clear I don't have to bring my wife on every gig that requires a dancer. It's just not professional to be like that but some people are because when a couple are both artists, they need to maximize the income for the family. In the short run that works great, but in the long run it's no good...people need to be more open and things come from the networking and positive feedback. Your singer friend needs to get over it be thankful cuz there are better singers in spain working construction or worse.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2012 17:01:13

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to Ricardo)

thanks for the advice man

quote:

.but over the years I have made it clear I don't have to bring my wife on every gig that requires a dancer. It's just not professional to be like that

wow that takes a lot of balls...would be a tricky situation especially if say for example there was a big show she was excited about and wanted to do and the decision was up to you...but say you had other plans...for example there was a more experienced dancer you wanted to use and there was only one spot left...tough tough situation...what would you do ?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2012 17:11:46

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to Florian)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Florian

thanks for the advice man

quote:

.but over the years I have made it clear I don't have to bring my wife on every gig that requires a dancer. It's just not professional to be like that

wow that takes a lot of balls...would be a tricky situation especially if say for example there was a big show she was excited about and wanted to do and the decision was up to you...but say you had other plans...for example there was a more experienced dancer you wanted to use and there was only one spot left...tough tough situation...what would you do ?

Not tough at all. The higher level dancer gets the spot. Thats' why I said its simple. In most cases I am highered by other dancers and they higher who they want or need. I know some guys would always be like "do you need an extra dancer? my wife is free..." But then it gets awkward cuz the boss of the job will feel obligated. That's no good cuz then you don't work out a proper feeling of respect and professionalism I would probably not get called back as much if I forced that issue. In fact, I have never done it for this reason, I don't think it is being fair. Now if I get ASKED to recommend a dancer that's different....but even still I tend to recommend best AVAILABLE rather than only push what I WANT for personal reasons. I feel these issues are why small communities of artists fail and end up fighting and making cliques and undercutting and end up fighting each other for low paying gigs and crap.

In our community we have it set up pretty well such that if a medium level artist has their own gig but needs a substitute, they are not afraid to call on even a higher level artists to fill the spot. Everyone knows their place and respects others positions. I have seen this be a problem in other commmunities where there is fear the higher level artist will simply steal the job away from the orginal person because they CAN. We don't work that way, and the result is we have a lot more consisitent and good work and support for each other.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2012 17:24:29

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to Ricardo)

wow man, my hat goes off to you...that's professionalism !

also your wife must be very understanding, must have a very good relationship where you must have discussed things like this and agreed to it...and she dosent get emotional about things....i mean you and I agree that that's would be the professional thing to do...but, i ve never had that kind of decision in my hands (had some emotional girlfriends tho lol)...will she always feel the same or will she get annoyed sometimes and make you suffer for it or accuse you of never supporting her or being selfish...must take a certain kind of understanding woman to not..

also i imagine it helps if there is a clear level of difference in experience between you and her, like if you didn't "come up" together...then she wouldn't have certain expectations

Ps i saw a photo of you and her on facebook a couple of days ago...shes spectacularly beautiful !!

i forgot!! the kind of natural woman love songs get made up about :-)

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2012 17:30:41

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

[Deleted]

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Jun. 26 2012 17:33:18

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2012 17:33:13

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to Kevin)

;)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 26 2012 17:35:08

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

I feel these issues are why small communities of artists fail and end up fighting and making cliques and undercutting and end up fighting each other for low paying gigs and crap.

well, you hit that nail on the head so hard it went right through the wood!!!

never mind online guitars lessons, you could make a packet teaching small flamenco communites how to work together instead against each other!

incidentally this is exactly what i was getting at when i made some negative comment awhile ago about competition.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2012 13:23:49

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to mark indigo)

quote:

never mind online guitars lessons, you could make a packet teaching small flamenco communites how to work together instead against each other!

yeah ..Gandhi couldn't do that in my city !

...theres a higher chance of Israel/Palestine hosting the next football world cup tournament together

actually the young are learning on how to live together...maintaining a certain level of professionalism and respect...like wont talk crap about the competition publicly or worry about it, everyone just tries their best through the shows and do the best they can, that's where the competition takes place...theres room for everybody and we all realize its ALL good for our city ... whatever ones personals feelings on ones work, they will keep it professional and wont rubbish them to students or outsiders.....figured out that it only makes us and our scene look bad

just waiting for the old school mentality to die off, rubbish everyone else to anyone that would listen...theres still some old teachers here (who should get respect and if they just minded their own business and weren't so spiteful they would get it ) resorting to that, rubbishing someones name, publicly trying to stir ****...making anonymous rude comments on you tube videos with accounts that go down after...calling emigration on anyone that has any Spanish guests in a show ...just in case they dont have the proper paperwork and will get sent home and can ruin the show for them..(when that happened to us that one really disgusted me)...its a jungle out there

the extent some go trough to mess things up for anyone doing anything its disturbing..

one incident some other guys did a show, invited a reviewer out...they didn't know the reviewer just happened to be friends with one of this old school mentality ex flamenco teacher...in fact it was their old flamenco teacher ...brought her along to the show...than allowed this person to correct and change words and paragraphs in the actual review, so the review pretty much said what she wanted it to say....u can imagine what she did

..out of everyone shes the most spiteful...and the people she was reviewing were once her advanced students who one day all walked out of her school and started up their own group cause of her behavior...she was very very spiteful about that

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2012 14:13:10

Ricardo

Posts: 14822
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to Florian)

quote:

will she always feel the same or will she get annoyed sometimes and make you suffer for it or accuse you of never supporting her or being selfish...must take a certain kind of understanding woman to not..

brother...lets not go there on the foro.

If you seriously want to know we can talk in private.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2012 17:39:04

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to Florian)

quote:

never mind online guitars lessons, you could make a packet teaching small flamenco communites how to work together instead against each other!

yeah ..Gandhi couldn't do that in my city ! ...theres a higher chance of Israel/Palestine hosting the next football world cup tournament together

yeah, after i posted that i thought to myself "on second thoughts, stick with the guitar, trying to teach people with serious socio-pathic paranoid ego's to be realistic about their own level and to get on with other people is probably just a totally lost cause"

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2012 17:44:10

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to mark indigo)

I got so fed up with the squabbling in England that eventually I stopped going to the clubs. Someone actually phoned a friend of mine to say that he was giving a party, and not to come!

Not that there weren’t a lot of nice people as well, of course, but eventually all the fake Spanish accents start wearing you down — or they did me, at any rate.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2012 18:07:31

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to Florian)

quote:

i saw a photo of you and her on facebook a couple of days ago

She reminds me a bit of Ava Gardner (showing my age).

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 27 2012 18:11:22

Florian

Posts: 9282
Joined: Jul. 14 2003
From: Adelaide/Australia

RE: Editing Posts and Etiquette (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

brother...lets not go there on the foro. If you seriously want to know we can talk in private.

well as i was saying that ...part of me was thinking ...cmon now u are just being naive...i might have never seriously dated a flamenco dancer before but i have dated some women....and according to them i was always selfish about something and not considerate enough about something, about how my actions made them feel ...i got a long list, you'd think my hobby is to make women feel insecure....and this is without being the one that has to tell them that i am leaving them out of any show they might wanna be in because ....

I cant even imagine what you say or how you say it to avoid conflict lol

" - Well pumpkin... as you know i love you......but i just dont see you as right for that part, they were asking for another dancer ...and i was thinking, i was thinking, who can we get ?, wrecking my brain...and then thought hang on !!! Helen is not doing anything..and shes in town, so i suggested her, u guys did the same classes together around the same time...do you have her number ? ... why dont u cook dinner for us tonight il be home after, il pick up a box of wine and well have a romantic evening

" lol

so a wife/girlfriend knocking heads with you about a rule like that at times is not totally inconceivable or unimaginable

of course my private is always opened for some entertaining story of how you managed to get so far along in your life with your balls intact AND your wife AND this professionalism rules