HELP! going nuts over my nut

Costs are rising and times are tough.
Please consider a donation to keep this
place going.

Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.

You are logged in as Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >>Discussions >>Lutherie >>

Page: [1]

Message

<< Newer Topic Older Topic >>

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

HELP! going nuts over my nut

i just opened my guitar case to find the high E string has broken at the nut.

it seems the nut has been slowly eating away at my treble strings. what should i do? should i bring it back to the repairman who made it?

i've noticed the intonation on the G and B string has been a bit wacky too.

one last thing, the nut is glued in. is it supposed to be? are there adverse tonal effects if it is?

i have no time for my guitar to be out of order!

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2010 19:08:11

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

Dont bust a nut!

You probably need to polish the string slot better than it is now. You can do this yourself.

I'm cooking some pasta Be right back...........

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2010 21:00:10

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to estebanana)

lol. damn it. now i'm hungry...

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2010 21:50:18

estebanana

Posts: 9351
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

Examine the nut for roughness in the treble slots. The quick fix is to get some cotton string that is about the same diameter as a treble string and coat it with toothpaste. Then rub it back and forth in the slot to polish out the roughness.

Try that and see what happnens then we move on to more drastic measures.

for my next trick, I'm gonna walk across the street to Mc Guires house and see if I can scam a beer off him......heh heh

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2010 22:00:04

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

hmmmm.... i don't know if i have any cotton strings around. are there any other substitutes?

hey, grab me a beer too. it'll go good with my ham and cheese sandwich.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2010 22:06:45

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

here's what it looks like. notice the G and B string. the B string has been turned around to show the tearing. it seems like it's the edge of the nut. the actual groove seems to be pretty smooth.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2010 22:24:17

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

Try this one, never had any problems with it...

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 18 2010 22:44:06

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

Try this one, never had any problems with it...

@x@!!! WTF! hahaah..great Mars..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2010 5:48:32

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

nice work, kozz! except the irony is that no one is eating the nut. the nut is doing the eating! my precious trebles!

oh, i like your new avatar, btw. i want to put a picture of myself up but this picture of paco is too priceless.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2010 6:54:58

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

I think you should follow the advise for polishing it very smoothly.

Its the same as with the nails, the smoother you polish, the better it sounds, and I think the less quick you brake a nail.\

I like those purple strings by the way....what are they?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2010 7:39:29

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

well i took it to mr. repairman today. he widened the slut and buffed it a bit with sandpaper. i wonder if it's too wide now. the trebles sound a little dull but it could be the strings.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2010 9:12:16

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

kozz, those are the labella elite reds. the g string is d'addario composite. sure is a pretty combination both visually and sonically. i wish i had a cejilla to go with it. here's one i bought for my friend.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2010 9:14:19

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

some more vanity pics of my goodl ol' c3f

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2010 9:23:32

Peter Tsiorba

Posts: 130
Joined: Oct. 27 2009
From: Portland, Oregon Pacific Northwest

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

ORIGINAL: at_leo_87

here's what it looks like. notice the G and B string. the B string has been turned around to show the tearing. it seems like it's the edge of the nut. the actual groove seems to be pretty smooth.

It looks from the photos that the string slots are very deep. I prefer about 1/2 of the string to be in the half-round channel. As Stephen mentioned, it should be polished so it does not abrade the string as you tune. Sometimes when the groove is this deep, and a little tight, the string binds, and consequently breaks. Did you change type/gage of strings since the repair person fitted the nut for you?

My diagnosis is that your string slots might be a bit undersized. Or poorly polished. Or most likely both.

Last point is my opinion--such deep slots detract from the tone of the guitar.

As to "glued-in" question, I hope it was just a small, tiny dab of glue. If that is the case, just a tap on the nut will knock the glue loose, and it will come out. If that is the case, I'd say no problem, tonally or otherwise. However, your nut will drive you nuts, and require serious monkeying-around to remove it next time, if it was glued-in with generous amounts of Gorilla glue ;)

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

_____________________________

Peter Tsiorba
Classical-Flamenco-Guitars
tsiorba.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2010 9:26:03

Peter Tsiorba

Posts: 130
Joined: Oct. 27 2009
From: Portland, Oregon Pacific Northwest

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

I looked at nut detail photos more closely, and I can see that the bone is literally slicing off layers of string material. The very leading edge of the nut should not be super-sharp. You definitely need to do some polishing and ease that edge a little. One thing you can do is get an old, used-up D and A strings, and "polish" the channel with the string that most closely matches the diameter of nylon string. The metal winding acts like a bit of a rounded file, and will ease the sharpness along the edges.

_____________________________

Peter Tsiorba
Classical-Flamenco-Guitars
tsiorba.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2010 9:34:08

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to Peter Tsiorba)

hey peter, thank you for help!

i'll try the d string trick. do you think the slots are too wide now?

i DID use a different set of strings when he made it. he made the bigger now but i hope it's not oversized. if the slots are too deep can i just sand the top of it off myself?

i think i remember him telling me he used just a a dab of glue to keep it in. but there's a small gap on the bass side. will this be a problem?

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2010 9:38:28

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

kozz, those are the labella elite reds. the g string is d'addario composite. sure is a pretty combination both visually and sonically. i wish i had a cejilla to go with it. here's one i bought for my friend.

Thanks man, I am gonna have a look for those. I have now Conde Hermanos 720 on the FN, but its not a match.
I think you should give yourselves a nice cejilla....accesoires are always nice.

Hopefully your strings will last longer now....still like your soundport design

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2010 10:27:49

kovachian

Posts: 506
Joined: Jan. 30 2008
From: Americanistan

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

You guys use glue for the nut? I never thought it was necessary, not even a tiny smidgen. I shape them so they wedge into place just eeever so slightly, and thus can be removed very easily for whatever reason. Same principle behind the bridge saddle really.

_____________________________

Don't look at me in that tone of voice.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2010 10:51:52

Peter Tsiorba

Posts: 130
Joined: Oct. 27 2009
From: Portland, Oregon Pacific Northwest

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to kovachian)

No, I don't use glue. And it is not needed when everything fits nice, and all the surfaces are precisely matched. However, if a small amount of glue was used, while it is not desirable, I don't believe it is some big sin either.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Peter Tsiorba
Classical-Flamenco-Guitars
tsiorba.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2010 11:30:39

Pgh_flamenco

Posts: 1506
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

So you'll drill your own sound ports (you did a good job) but take your guitar to have the nut adjusted? lol Seems like you have this backwards to me.

There can be three sharp edges where each string enters the nut above the fret board. If they are cutting into the strings they should be rounded a little. I would try this first before widening the entire slot.

Since the different intonation systems all seem to bring the nut over the fb to correct tuning issues moving the nut away from the fb should cause tuning problems--at least that's what I would expect.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2010 11:33:01

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

the repairman insisted that we use glue. so now i'll have to tap it out. a few more questions!

-is it okay if the nut is held just by string tension?
-should i take the nut off to sand the top off to reveal more string as suggested by peter?
-do you guys think the slots are too wide now?

@pgh, i didn't have the tools to make the slots but maybe i should invest in some. maybe open up my own action adjustment and sound port business. lol.

@kozz, i've made cejillas before out of junk wood and 4/4 sized pegs. i just bought some nice 1/8 sized pegs and i have some nice wood now so i'm going to see if i can make something nice tomorrow.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2010 12:59:55

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

@kozz, i've made cejillas before out of junk wood and 4/4 sized pegs. i just bought some nice 1/8 sized pegs and i have some nice wood now so i'm going to see if i can make something nice tomorrow.

Anthony, you are quite active in the physical adjustions etc. Thats great!
I've tried to see what I could come up with, I wanted to make a doll house with puppets for a daughter of a friend of mine, but I only got this far...no talent for woodworking

(Dont ask me what is should suppose to be

)

Show us your cejilla's!

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2010 13:37:39

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to kozz)

cool! that's an interesting concept.

i haven't decided what shape i should use. i'm going to make a few, i have a belt sander so shaping is easy peasy.

we should open another thread and brainstorm some design concepts.

_____________________________

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2010 13:40:39

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: HELP! going nuts over my nut (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

-is it okay if the nut is held just by string tension?
-should i take the nut off to sand the top off to reveal more string as suggested by peter?
-do you guys think the slots are too wide now?

On my guitar I made the headplate SLIGHTLY tapered in relation to the fingerboard so I could make a nut with the same taper that slides and locks snugly in but can also be removed easily... but I don't see the need for any glue even if the nut is not that tight.

I don't think it matters that the strings are below the top of the nut as long as there is nothing for the string to vibrate against. He probably went a little overboard with widening the slots but it won't affect the sound. It's pretty obvious to me though that your original problem was just having the leading edge of the nut slots too sharp. Couple passes with a file just to break the edge would have done it..

_____________________________

Andy Culpepper, luthier
http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 19 2010 14:27:08