Playing with altered tuning

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XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

Playing with altered tuning

A question for those who regularly play with drop D tunings and such, maybe also change the tuning on stage... is there anything that helps the guitar to keep tuning? Especialy my bass E string tends to go higher and higher after i tuned it to D.
So far i have two things in my mind that could help...
- only play with used strings
- tune the E string a bit lower than D, coz it always WILL move up above D otherwise

Maybe there is a special tie?

Btw. its about Tomatitos Tangos, so its not a libre palo where you can make a pause in the middle of the piece, smoke a cigarette and continue playing after you re-tuned your guitar.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 6 2009 12:40:26

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Playing with altered tuning (in reply to XXX)

this is from: http://douglasniedt.com/techtiphowtostabilizescordaturatunings.html

quote:

As an example, let's say you want to tune the sixth string down to "D" and keep it there. Here is what you do. On most nylon-string guitars it takes about three half-turns of the tuning machine knob (or key) to tune the sixth string down to "D" (a half-turn is a 180 degree rotation of the knob). To "trick" the string's "memory," turn the tuning knob six half-turns down instead of three. That takes the string way past its destination of "D." Let it sit for about five seconds. Then turn the knob back up three half-turns which brings it approximately back to "D." That's all there is to it. Those three extra turns, going down past your destination note and then back up, help "set" or stabilize the string at its new pitch. It will still creep up a little bit, but very little. In his excellent book, Tuning the Guitar by Ear (published by Mel Bay Publications), Gerald Klickstein recommends tuning down nine turns and up six. Experiment and see what works for you.

Then, to tune the sixth string back up to "E" after playing in dropped-D tuning, turn the tuning knob up six half-turns. Again, this takes you way past your destination pitch of "E." Let it sit about five seconds. Then turn the tuning knob back down three half-turns which brings it back approximately to "E." Once again, those three extra turns that take you up past your destination note help restore the string's "memory" so it stabilizes back on "E" with very little string drift afterward.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 6 2009 15:33:29

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Playing with altered tuning (in reply to XXX)

Thanks Anthony, that makes sense. I was wondering about the same thing myself. My Rondena started to drift out a bit towards the end

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Andy Culpepper, luthier
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 6 2009 15:42:25

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Playing with altered tuning (in reply to Andy Culpepper)

quote:

Thanks Anthony, that makes sense. I was wondering about the same thing myself. My Rondena started to drift out a bit towards the end

i didnt notice. but then again, my ear is pretty bad despite all the ear training i do. what exactly is rondena tuning?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 6 2009 16:00:16

ToddK

Posts: 2961
Joined: Dec. 6 2004

RE: Playing with altered tuning (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

what exactly is rondena tuning?

Im pretty sure its = Low E tuned down to D, and G string tuned up to F#.

But Tomatito's tangos uses a different tuning than that, so maybe there are
several tunings that are considered "Rondena".

I'd like to hear more info on that too.

TK

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 6 2009 20:57:38

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: Playing with altered tuning (in reply to ToddK)

Rondeña is actually a cante form similar to Verdiales and is accompanied in standard tuning.

Ramon Montoya created his own libre guitar solo called Rondeña and did it with the tuning of 6th to D and 3rd to F#. It has become common these days and that is the tuning we are talking about in regards to the solo guitar Rondeña. Oddly enough, it is a tuning that was used for the lute centuries ago, although everything was up a minor third so that the D was an F. I used to use a capo on 3 playing Renaissance music on the guitar when using the tuning because it sounded lighter and more characteristic of the lute.

When people are refering to a tuning of Rondeña, this is the one they are refering to.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 6 2009 21:59:13

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Playing with altered tuning (in reply to JasonMcGuire)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonMcGuire
Rondeña is actually a cante form similar to Verdiales and is accompanied in standard tuning.

Thats interesting cause 99% of the Rondenas i hear are solo guitar. Maybe it all changed due to Montoya and Paco?

Anthony thanks, thats useful! Im not sure i will have the guts to "Let the string sit for about five seconds" on stage, though

Tomatitos Tangos is in D, tuning: 1st D 2nd Bb 6th D. Im still searching for a way, to get more friction between the strings and the guitar.

Why cant we have a guitar that has an electronic machine head, which turns the strings automatically to a tuning you choose? Also it could detect and adjust the tuning meanwhile you play. Anders, what do you think?

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2009 0:08:38

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: Playing with altered tuning (in reply to XXX)

Here is a video of the cante.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2009 0:30:43

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Playing with altered tuning (in reply to XXX)

quote:

Why cant we have a guitar that has an electronic machine head, which turns the strings automatically to a tuning you choose? Also it could detect and adjust the tuning meanwhile you play. Anders, what do you think?

Hi Deniz,

This would certainly be feasible with today's miniature servo feedback systems as used in hundreds of products from dvd players to cameras etc... but I think a lot of players would feel their guitar to be kinda "violated" somehow.

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2009 0:37:17

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Playing with altered tuning (in reply to Ron.M)

Thanks, Jason! Its always funny for me to hear Verdiales, because that strumming sounds to me like an out-of-rythm Sevillanas

Do others feel the same?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron.M
but I think a lot of players would feel their guitar to be kinda "violated" somehow.

Yes thats true. But maybe it will eventually come, we dont know. I mean, its being discussed to design cars that drive automatically...
The electronics for the guitar would have to be non-visible and non-hearable. I think then many people could live with the idea, that the machine head is not entirely made of wood

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2009 0:47:44

JasonMcGuire

Posts: 1141
Joined: Apr. 10 2007

RE: Playing with altered tuning (in reply to XXX)

Like this......

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2009 0:48:35

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Playing with altered tuning (in reply to JasonMcGuire)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonMcGuire

Like this......

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2009 0:52:23

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Playing with altered tuning (in reply to XXX)

quote:

Im not sure i will have the guts to "Let the string sit for about five seconds" on stage, though

have your cigarette. or check the other strings to see if they're in tune. or check out the hot girl in the front row for a bit.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2009 8:18:47

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Playing with altered tuning (in reply to XXX)

deleted

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 7 2009 9:11:47

sig

Posts: 296
Joined: Nov. 7 2007
From: Wisconsin

RE: Playing with altered tuning (in reply to XXX)

Denis,
"Why cant we have a guitar that has an electronic machine head, which turns the strings automatically to a tuning you choose? Also it could detect and adjust the tuning meanwhile you play. Anders, what do you think?"

Gibson already came out with a self-tuning guitar called "Robot guitar". It looks like a standard Les Paul but it can tune itself to standard tuning and can tune to non-standard tunings like Drop D and Open G.

What will they thing of next