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Shoud we have a public poll on the next challenge?
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[Poll]
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Shoud we have a public poll on the next challenge?
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| YES |
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| NO |
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| UNDECIDED |
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Total Votes : 22
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(last vote on : Jun. 8 2009 10:17:28)
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Ron.M
Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland
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 RE: Should we have a public poll on ... (in reply to Ailsa)
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quote:
Yes we could try it, but how would the poll work? Would people just vote for their favourite, rather than give a score?
Yes Ailsa,
The entries would still be anonymized by the organiser or manager who receives and uploads the entries.
Member voters just vote on a "first past the post" system, that is they choose the one they like the best.
If there is only a "hair" in it, then that's up to the voter to wrestle with in casting his or her vote.
"Fooling around" with the system would be difficult, since you are allowed one vote only by the automated system and "double registering" would not only get you exposed as a cheat in public, but possibly excluded from the Forum.
The names of which members voted for whom can be seen by clicking on the "bar" of the graph. (I'm not sure if this function is available only on the Admins view, but either way it ensures no foul play).
Detailled comments or advice (where appropriate) could be given by any member afterwards.
Whether prizes are involved or not it, would make no difference IMO.
I quite fancy a try out of it anyway, since this current challenge has thrown up the anomaly of half the judges voting on players with a much higher technique and knowledge level than their own. (as Ricardo and Norman pointed out).
So is THIS actually really fairer "when expensive prizes are involved" ?
Hmm..I dunno so much?
For any player playing anywhere, ultimately the Public decide whether they like your stuff or not, whether they are aficionados or know nothing more about Flamenco except for a record they think they might have somewhere in a cupboard?
Think about it anyway folks and vote on your decision.
cheers,
Ron
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jun. 4 2009 11:15:29
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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RE: Shoud we have a public poll on t... (in reply to Ron.M)
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Anyone can post a comment now too (and its already been done, lol).
What about this:
Why not mix the votings 50% public, 50% challengers. Challengers can vote each others by sending an email to an account, who collects all votes so that challengers dont see each others rankings. This way you also exclude challengers voting themselves.
Remember, the more judges, and the more anonym they are, the more you have the risk of cheating, giving more points to your buddies here etc.
In the intermediate it wasnt that obvious, but with this challenge we have to face the fact, that judgments can vary too much. Honestly, giving challengers also a voice will remove alot of frustration. It will be much more rewarding, because somebody who plays the piece is endlessly more suited to give a good opinion. To involve the public, we can mix the scores.
I mean, its sad enough that the majority of the "normal" people is not into flamenco. Should we adapt that system?
Oh, and it would surprise me alot if this poll here would have a majority for "NO"  Its like asking: "Hey should there be free beer for everyone?" 
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Фламенко
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jun. 4 2009 11:22:23
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XXX
Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005
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RE: Shoud we have a public poll on t... (in reply to Ron.M)
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First off, i am against "voting", i am for judging. You know how this started? We wanted to compare different versions/interpretations of a falseta (well, that was my inention at least). In any case, when we started with the idea, there were no "prizes". It was Michelobs and Jasons spontanous decision to offer prizes. Voting will lead to 2-3 people gaining all comments/attention/points.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ron.M
So I'd say either assume challengers will vote for themselves or disallow them from voting at all.
... or make sure judging/voting is done closed to the public, i.e. you cant see the results before not all of them are finished. Thats the only "fair" way to exclude influence from other judgings anyway. Somebody who knows the identity of the mp3s can collect the judgings/votes of the challengers (i already wrote that above), and he can check if challengers stick to the rule to not judge themselves.
Judging is hard. Even if its a very experienced flamenco, it still makes a difference between someone who plays the piece, knows what to look for in detail, or not.
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Фламенко
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jun. 7 2009 3:00:59
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mrMagenta
Posts: 942
Joined: Oct. 25 2006
From: Sweden
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RE: Shoud we have a public poll on t... (in reply to Ron.M)
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I voted 'undecided'. I think I'd prefer a 50/50 combination of polling and judges, especially if the judges are very few. But I'd still restrict poll votes to members with a minimum amount of posts as suggested, and perhaps a rule that says the voter must have been registered on the foro for 'x amount of time' to vote.
Ideally advanced players should be judged by advanced players, but mostly because that's how they can get more valuable technical feedback and constructive critique. I judged the advanced challenge privately, as a listening exercise, and my scores were about the same as Jasons, but I couldn't have formulated the critique he gave.
My suspicion is that there wouldn't be a huge difference in the end results if medium/beginner players would judge an advanced challenge as opposed to advanced ones, so I'm not so concerned about the fairness. I think most of us are accustomed to listening to different levels of flamenco guitar, and can recognize what makes for good playing, we might however not be as experienced in breaking it down and putting it in concrete terms, or playing all that well ourselves.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Jun. 8 2009 11:55:07
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since advanced means advanced..its hard to find supperadvanced ..ideally u want someone above or around the same level judging a level...but if its difficult to find that expecially if they are compeating.. the next best thing u have is public opinion and mass voting 
) which counts for 50% of the final total score...? 
