solea por buleria part 2

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hassurbanipal

Posts: 191
Joined: Jul. 14 2006
From: belgium

solea por buleria part 2

okay guys,
question number two

You have the llamada, starts on 1, ends on 10 over two compasses?
so you start again after it on 1?
even when the dancers start on twelve
because in buleria you stop at 10 and begin again on 12, not so in solea por buleria?

and does anyone have good llamadas in your closet you want to share? I need some good ones badly.....

thanks

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Plus je connais les hommes, plus j'admire les chiens."
E. Satie

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 13 2008 23:25:54

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: solea por buleria part 2 (in reply to hassurbanipal)

Generally a llamada does start on 1 for a solea por buleria. Theoretically the second time around you start on 1 again but it's was more important to accent the feet in the best way possible and maybe give a climactic feeling to the part that's ending.

There are dance llamadas that are rhythmically completely syncopated and would sound horrible with the guitar just strumming in compás. I say follow the feet and accent the 12.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2008 0:01:09

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: solea por buleria part 2 (in reply to hassurbanipal)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hassurbanipal

okay guys,
question number two

You have the llamada, starts on 1, ends on 10 over two compasses?
so you start again after it on 1?
even when the dancers start on twelve
because in buleria you stop at 10 and begin again on 12, not so in solea por buleria?

and does anyone have good llamadas in your closet you want to share? I need some good ones badly.....

thanks

This whole thing about "starting on..." whatever beat, is confusing the issue. The rhythm is constant regardless, so it is not about STARTING, it is about WHAT you do on a certain beat. You don't need to shift your internal feel because of llamada or whatever. I dont' care what you think "starting" means, I find it important to GIVE the accent "12" regardless. If that means a hard accented chord, fine, other times it is just a golpe. But that is the head and strong beat. Llamadas that start on 1 are just springing off of that accent. BOOM, taka taka taka taka TAH!....etc.

So if you STOP on 10, again you can give a chord or not on 12, but the important thing is to convey the feeling of WHERE the 12 is, because the singer too will be springing off of that. I just think "BOOM" for 12 and 6 regardless of what is happening. By "boom" I mean it is a heavy weight inside that grounds the entire thing, usually a bassy golpe conveys this.

Hope that helps.

Oh llamada 2 compases:
just an A chord:
BOOM, takataka takataka TA TA__uh ta ti boom, takataka, takataka, takataka TA TA__TA BOOM.
Bb9#11 chord:
Brrrap, Brrrap, BrrrapPAH__uh ta ti boom, Ta-ka-ta,Ta-ka-ta, Ta-ka-ta, (A chord)TA! (rest) BOOM....

You can do any rasgueados you want to make those rhythmic sounds. "boom" is just a heavy golpe. If cante is coming I will hit a nice loud A chord on that last "BOOM".

Ricardo

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2008 19:10:56

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: solea por buleria part 2 (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

just an A chord:
BOOM, takataka takataka TA TA__uh ta ti boom, takataka, takataka, takataka TA TA__TA BOOM.
Bb9#11 chord:
Brrrap, Brrrap, BrrrapPAH__uh ta ti boom, Ta-ka-ta,Ta-ka-ta, Ta-ka-ta, (A chord)TA! (rest) BOOM....

Singing that round the office is entertaining folk no end, but I'm not quite sure of the counting. I've got the second one, it's the first one I can't get. Help?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2008 21:02:48

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: solea por buleria part 2 (in reply to hassurbanipal)

quote:

even when the dancers start on twelve

Not sure if this is going to help or confuse you more but.....

When I am dancing I always start on 12 - I am always feeling the compas starting on 12 BUT BUT BUT......

you may not see anything happening. In a llamada I go:
12 breathe in
1 golpe right foot
2 golpe right foot
3 golpe right foot
etc etc

You might see that as starting on 1, because that's the first thing you will see/hear. But it isn't how I feel it.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2008 21:08:04

hassurbanipal

Posts: 191
Joined: Jul. 14 2006
From: belgium

RE: solea por buleria part 2 (in reply to hassurbanipal)

hey john, ailsa and ricarod

thanks for the help
it's making sense to me now.
and indeed ricardo, you said in the other thread about solea por bul., compas keeps going and going wether you feel the 12 th beat as the beginning or not...

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Plus je connais les hommes, plus j'admire les chiens."
E. Satie

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 14 2008 23:28:26

NormanKliman

Posts: 1143
Joined: Sep. 1 2007

RE: solea por buleria part 2 (in reply to hassurbanipal)

quote:

compas keeps going and going wether you feel the 12 th beat as the beginning or not...

The great flamencologist Paul Simon once said, "One man's ceiling is another man's floor."

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Be here now.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2008 5:10:11

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: solea por buleria part 2 (in reply to Ailsa)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ailsa

quote:

even when the dancers start on twelve

Not sure if this is going to help or confuse you more but.....

When I am dancing I always start on 12 - I am always feeling the compas starting on 12 BUT BUT BUT...... you may not see anything happening. In a llamada I go:
12 breathe in
1 golpe right foot
2 golpe right foot
3 golpe right foot
etc etc

You might see that as starting on 1, because that's the first thing you will see/hear. But it isn't how I feel it.

Yep. FEELING is different than PLAYING something with rhythm. That 12 is real important to feel regardless what happens on it. Thanks for adding that to the discussion.

quote:

but I'm not quite sure of the counting. I've got the second one, it's the first one I can't get. Help?

well...if I must.

compas 1:
12, 1e&ah2e&ah 3&,(4)&5&6, 7e&ah8e&ah9e&ah 10 & (11) & 12......
Compas 2:(32nd note triplets lead the first 3 beats)
1 , 2 , 3 &, (4)&5&6, 7&ah,8&ah,9&ah, 10 (11) 12....

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 15 2008 18:50:33

Ailsa

Posts: 2277
Joined: Apr. 17 2007
From: South East England

RE: solea por buleria part 2 (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

compas 1:
12, 1e&ah2e&ah 3&,(4)&5&6, 7e&ah8e&ah9e&ah 10 & (11) & 12......
Compas 2:(32nd note triplets lead the first 3 beats)
1 , 2 , 3 &, (4)&5&6, 7&ah,8&ah,9&ah, 10 (11) 12....

Yeah I agree it was much more poetic the first time

Thanks!

And now you've put the numbers in it's so obvious I'm thinking 'Duh! Of course that's how it goes'