On music in general...

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Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

On music in general...

This week I listened on the radio about the collaboration between Nelson Riddel and Frank Sinatra.
Nelson Riddel, a one time trombonist who moved to Hollywood to try to get some work, since he was married and had some kids to support, found that his "jazzy" approach to stuff required a discipline to arrange things for movie soundtracks and artists albums.
He threw himself into it...and eventually regarded that "every note counts".
He was working with Nat King Cole at the time when he first came to the attention of Sinatra, who was on an all-time low and not getting much work.
The radio program had exerpts of them working together.
One thing I liked about the programme, was when Nelson Riddel's son said..
"With Sinatra, you had to get it in the first 2 or 3 takes, or else he was unhappy about the arrangement..and that meant aborting the session and a lot of re-writing...so my Dad always tried to made sure he was comfortable with the swing of the piece....
Everything you hear has been done in 2 or 3 takes with a live 30 piece orchestra and Frank singing."
The musicians said "Well..if you were going in for a Frankie session, you made sure you didn't get drunk the night before....you had to play at your highest level".

These days, I gather that they take up to six months to put down a single record, editing, dubbing and punching in notes here and there...

Listen to the delivery of the voice and band from "Songs for Swinging Lovers" to get the "precision" of this work.
The voice, the phrasing... the general sound of the band and the virtuoso playing...
This I think gives us perspective on playing guitar...
I know ToddK knows this from his excellent uploads...
That's what it's all about IMO.
This is what I think Paco de Lucia was all about too..
Just excellence!
Think about it....

cheers

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 18 2006 21:22:31

Thomas Whiteley

Posts: 786
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: San Francisco Bay Area

RE: On music in general... (in reply to Ron.M)

quote:

"every note counts".

Ron;

Very true!

Nelson Riddle was one of a kind! He was sought after by many singers and really knew how to make the finished product enjoyable. He had a reputation just like Sinatra – a perfectionist.

Some additional singers he did arrangements for include Shirley Bassey, Nat King Cole, Ella Fitzgerald, Judy Garland, Peggy Lee, Dean Martin, Matt Monro, Linda Ronstadt, and Keely Smith.

Without question each note counts. Just as a side – I truly enjoy listening to Tommy Emmanuel play guitar for that very reason.

A truly great musician knows how important it is to get the musical message across regardless of what style is being played.

_____________________________

Tom
http://home.comcast.net/~flamencoguitar/flamenco.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2006 0:14:57

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: On music in general... (in reply to Ron.M)

I can't put myself in the category of any of these great musicians, but I have come to realize this approach is important, too. This week I spent a little time in the studio. My previous efforts had been unsatisfactory. I decided to take the simplest song I was going to record, and take a couple of weeks to get it perfect. I worked it pretty hard! The song was Romanza, probably the first "classical" piece I ever learned. But there are a few tricky parts which often cause muffs or squeaks. I needed to eliminate them, because records have to be virtually perfect or they sound very amateurish.

I went over and over the position changes, played them very slow... played every note very slow, many times.

When I finally got in the studio, I did the first couple of takes without any noticeable errors. As an experiment we played both takes at the same time and they sounded almost like one take. The precision I had demonstrated was a whole new level (for me).

Unfortunately, I never really had time to work on the musicality or interpretation--my work was all absorbed in technique. I hope how it works is eventually you find more efficient ways to work and then you don't leave out important things like that.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2006 3:21:54

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: On music in general... (in reply to Thomas Whiteley)

Can you imagine the pressure these musicians were under back in those days when things were more or less recorded "directly"?
Maybe session musicians sitting in with their colleagues (and maybe rivals).
Imagine....the whole band is going full tilt, the instumentalists have just pulled off some of the most inspired solos ever and Sinatra is giving a performance of a lifetime.....everybody can hear that this is definitely going to be THE take....and YOU happen to be the dork that momentarily loses concentration and hits a Bflat instead of a B....the conductor holds his hands up and the whole thing grinds to a halt....

Makes my hands sweat just to think about it!

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2006 11:24:49

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: On music in general... (in reply to Ron.M)

I remember listening to Beatles out-take tapes and you got to hear some pretty pissy comments from John and Paul when someone was moofing it...

Thankfully we have Protools now and no one needs to be truly talented anymore...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 19 2006 23:37:01