Hands freezing, particularly right hand

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ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

Hands freezing, particularly right hand

Hey flamenco lovers!

Ok, here's a problem i've been having for years, and still don't have a solution to it.

Even when I'm dressed up with lots of cloths, and have gloves on, my hands are so cold I can barely feel my fingers.

And that's causing me a major pain in the ass for the guitare.
I try to pump more blood in my body by doing pushups, drinking a boiling tea and even though all my body gets hot, my hands are still freezing...

It happens for me to get warm hands and feel the cords better, but I never know what's the factor doing so...

So I was wondering if any of you had the same problem and what was your solution for this.

Thank you!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 1:30:01

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

Try a hot / cold water "shock bath".
Ok here it comes.

Take two big bowls of water, 1 filled with warm water, the other one filled with cold water.
- put your hands in the warm water bowl for 2 minutes
- after that put your hands in cold water for about 1 minute
- do that about 4 times
- after the last cold water bath poore some cold water by the hot water and put your hands in it for 1 minute.

Your hands should feel completely relaxed and comfortable of temperature.

By the way, do you smoke a lot?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 1:47:40

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

Hey kozz, thanks for your reply!

No i don't smoke at all, i don't know if it's a blood circulation problem either.

I'm gonna try your technic right away, i just hope my nails won't get too soft after the long water exposure! Here i go!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 1:55:32

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

quote:

No i don't smoke at all, i don't know if it's a blood circulation problem either.
I'm gonna try your technic right away, i just hope my nails won't get too soft after the long water exposure! Here i go!

Ok, I did smoke quite a lot in the past and always had cold hands.
Your nails should be fine.

Its a nice hands-sauna and the are relaxed when you start to play.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 2:05:45

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

Ok i just tried it, but without respecting the timing you gave. I kept my hands for 20 seconds each time in hot/cold water, and tadaa! IT WORKS!!

But as I feared, my nails got soft, got to wait a bit to play, hope I won't be cold by that time!

Thanks again kozz, if any other of you have other ways of doing this, without making the nails go soft, please post your way!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 2:07:39

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

This is far out, and I don't have the slightest idea whether or not this will work, but you might as well try anything and everything. Take a pair of gloves, preferably not lined, and cut off the fingers just past the first two joints. The left thumb needs to be cut way down so the glove doesn't rub the neck. That might keep your hands warm and still give your fingers the necessary freedom. If that doesn't work, try the same exact idea with a pair of surgical gloves. Those will cling to your hands like a second skin, and might solve the problem. Good luck.

Dr. P. Critic

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 5:53:03

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

Slow breathing exercises, inflating/deflating your stomach facilitate circulation and will defrost your hands (to some degree).

However, equally slow hand exercises (which we should all do before playing) will significantly warm up your hands. I simply fold my fingers into a fist and then release them into a long stretch. I do these about 100 times (a couple of well worth minutes, really, that is all it takes).

Incidentally, I apologize for my extended absence, I was travelling and had no time to spend on my favorite pastimes, neither the forum nor the guitar.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 6:38:53

edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

quote:

I apologize for my extended absence,

Welcome back!
I'm sure I'm not the only one who missed your comments.

_____________________________

Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 8:50:18

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

quote:

Even when I'm dressed up with lots of cloths, and have gloves on, my hands are so cold I can barely feel my fingers

Have you considered moving from Paris?

I hear Cairo is quite warm.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 8:59:34

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to edguerin)

quote:

Welcome back!
I'm sure I'm not the only one who missed your comments.

It doesn't take much to make it one's day, thank you Edguerin for your kindest words.

Piemientito... you must have really given up on this if you are suggesting relocating to Cairo [or "the" Cairo, as they would say it there] as a cure....

'missed this.

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gj Michelob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 9:59:32

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

quote:

IT WORKS!!

But as I feared, my nails got soft

you could try wearing rubber gloves while you put your hands in the bowls of water, they will still get warmed up etc. but your nails won't go soft!

isn't garlic supposed to be good for circulation? try eating lots and lots of garlic! i can send you my evil garlic soup recipe if you want

or try these gloves i saw an advert for, you might need to cut the fingers off completely though....

http://www.windsorproducts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=78

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 13:02:35

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

For me drinking hot tea helps. Maybe as option? When you put your fingers into water,they are wet...and wet fingers are cold.. I had that problm in past. Also using gloves made my fingers sweat = wet =cold afterwards.. So I think the best is keeping the hands dry and drinking warm tea.

(EDIT: the fingertip free therapy gloves could help..^^never had this idea.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 13:26:21

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

I also had this problem in past. Gloves didnt work at all for me. Now i just go out for a walk.
Sometimes the coldness also goes away by itself. Thats a bit strange.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 13:26:36

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

Hey all ! thanks for your replies!

Prominent Critic : I already tried the gloves with the fingers cut. I could play with them, but it didn't solve my problem of freezing hands.
I don't think warming the skin up helps in my case. The water reaction that i tried this morning triggered an inner reaction of blood flow i guess.

gj Michelob : That sounds like nice exercices. Will try them tomorrow before playing and tell you if it worked! thanks for your time!

Pimientito : Lol, that's an interesting idea, BUT ! I already lived 10 years in lebanon once, and of course in summer when it's 40 degrees, i don't have that problem, but in winter, you get like 14 degrees, and that's enough for my hands to freeze again!
I guess i'll have to live in Africa, in a country where it's always HOT!

mark indigo : Yeah i thought about the rubber gloves after doing the water trick today, i'm gonna try it that way next time, and i'll see if the vlood flow circulation is triggered only by heat or by some skin reaction that tells the brain "pump more blood over there bastard!"

Thanks again guys, I'll try these two technics and will let you know if it worked for me or not.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 13:28:04

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

Hey, two answers while i was writing my long answer!

Doitsujin : もしかして日本語できる人？"Moshikashite nihongo dekiru hito?"
I hear you about the wet part, i get the same when my hands are sweatty, they just get colder. Tea gets my body temperature higher, but even holding the damn boiling cup doesn't do the trick for me!

Deniz : That's exactly my case, it comes and goes on a whim, but i'm freezing like 80% of the time... And just like you, when I come hom from outside and it's very cold, my hands just get warm a few minutes later at home. Maybe because when we're out, the body is heating up real high to fight the coldness, and the body keeps working for a little time before switching back to normal mode (due to the sudden change of temperature Outside/Home).

A real mystery...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 13:33:59

Doitsujin

Posts: 5078
Joined: Apr. 10 2005

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

quote:

Doitsujin : もしかして日本語できる人？

もちろん。日本語は簡単な言葉だね。皆が分かるでしょう。

ええっと。。ok..文法あまりわからない。でも話しは　もんだい　ない。。。少し日本語を喋りたいですか。すみません。。。ぼくは少し下手な日本語を書いて、先にいっぱい酒を飲んだからです。。まだ。。よっぱらい。 (u_u )

(edit.. trying to solve spelling mistakes...these kanji are sooo small...!)

I hope you find a fast easy method for warming up your hands... Rafael Cortes told me once..that he can play with warm fingers as well as with cold fingers.. He said its just a "mind thing.." I dont know if that is true.. but when watching him playing.. I could believe.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 14:52:09

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

Rafael Cortes has it right. I would not have believed had I not experienced it myself after 20 years of playing. I had a wedding out door, it got super cold out. Along he way my playing deteriorated, painful, lack of control. No amount of vino or hot tea helped. The sun went down and then my fingers went numb. Suddenly, I could not feel the strings anymore, but my playing went back to "normal". It felt like someone else was playing my guitar. It honestly IS all in your mind.

But one trick that can help that I learned years ago too. When your fingers are cold enough you can't feel a good control of the string, put vaseline or other petrolium on the tips of the RH nails, and you get perfectly nice planting and control. Problem is it kills your bass strings pretty quick. Again, it lets your finger get a better grip, but honestly again, a lot of it is in your mind.

Practice with cold fingers and don't think much of it and you will get used to it, I promise.

Ricardo

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 16:54:38

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

I remembered a discussion with a motorcyclist years ago. He told me he had gloves with silver threads in it to keep his hands warm. It came from the healthcare business.
I found a link to a page with some information:
http://www.tdshealthcare.co.uk/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 17:25:29

at_leo_87

Posts: 3055
Joined: Aug. 30 2008
From: Boston, MA, U.S.A

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

for a quick fix, just try sitting on your hands! it's what i did in school when they were too cheap to heat the school properly.

if you think it's a serious condition, i would suggest you ask your doctor about it. i dont mean to scare you, but it could mean other things.

and welcome back gj! any exciting travelling adventure stories?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 17:31:00

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

Well, maybe it is in your mind. The great classical guitarist, John Williams, used to walk in shortly before a concert he was giving was due to start, dead of winter, no gloves – nothing, ice cold hands, and then on top of all that he would sit down without so much as warming up and play like a god. So who knows?

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 15 2009 18:51:34

stratos13

Posts: 222
Joined: Apr. 11 2005
From: Αθήνα

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

I used to have the same problem.
But i have now realised that it means nothing. Keep playing even if you have cold hands and don't mind it at all. You will find out with time that you will be able to play, and you will never have to think about your hands being cold again!
Blame your technique and work on technique.
Do not blame the temperature of your hands and do not waste time trying to make them hot.
My 2 cents

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2009 0:26:06

kozz

Posts: 1766
Joined: Feb. 26 2009
From: Eindhoven NL

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

I am not sure it is all in your mind.

If you have, as Ricardo says "After 20 years...", as PC mentions "John Williams....." etc, we are talking about peolple who can even play when they are asleep. Playing is like the most natural thing in the world, its like breathing, you don't have to think about anymore.

When you are learning I think it is essential to have warm and relaxed hands in order to create muscle memory, which seems to do best with warm relaxed hands.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2009 1:18:17

John O.

Posts: 1723
Joined: Dec. 16 2005
From: Seeheim-Jugenheim, Germany

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

Depends on where it comes from. If it's really cold gloves will help, if it's your circulation grape juice will help (this is why wine works - the grape juice), nervousness can cause the latter and it can all be in your mind, too.

In any case if your technique is solid and you don't let it worry you it shouldn't be a problem and you can get used to cold hands. I've only had problems with this when I try to play something too difficult on stage.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2009 3:44:36

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to kozz)

quote:

If you have, as Ricardo says "After 20 years...", as PC mentions "John Williams....." etc, we are talking about peolple who can even play when they are asleep.

I tend to agree. Ricardo has proved himself able to play divinely in almost any physical condition so I doubt that a bit of cold weather makes much difference. John williams always seemed to have his hands warmed up because he played so much. If you play 7 hours a day your hand muscles are nearly always limber so you dont have to warm up in the same way as a part time player. A profesional player definately has a huge advantage in this case.

My fingers simply dont move when they are cold. I find it hard to tie a shoelace let alone play the flamenco guitar. In the sacromonte the air comes straight of the sierras which are full of snow. Inside the caves can be quite cold and even with coats on, its much harder to acompany dancers in winter. One thing i noticed was that if you are doing a lot of heavy rasgueo, the fanning action cools your fingers down quite a lot, even in warm weather. I ease of the rasgueo in the colder weather

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2009 6:23:45

Ricardo

Posts: 14797
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to Pimientito)

quote:

John williams always seemed to have his hands warmed up because he played so much. If you play 7 hours a day your hand muscles are nearly always limber so you dont have to warm up in the same way as a part time player.

In his documentary williams states he only ever practiced 30 minutes or so a day.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2009 6:35:04

XXX

Posts: 4400
Joined: Apr. 14 2005

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

Rafael Cortes has it right. I would not have believed had I not experienced it myself after 20 years of playing.

It probably takes 20 years to have your muscle memory setup so well that it doesnt matter (so that you dont have to feel the string or the movement)? When my hands are cold, i have the worst problems with picado and rasgeado. Those are the techniques i practice less than arpegio and pulgar.
In any case, also regarding possible injuries etc, it is always better to play with warm hands.

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Фламенко

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2009 6:44:20

Ron.M

Posts: 7051
Joined: Jul. 7 2003
From: Scotland

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

just try sitting on your hands! it's what i did in school when they were too cheap to heat the school properly.

Ah!...fond memories...

In Scottish schools the teachers would often use "The Belt" to warm your hands for you.
3 strokes on each hand. Wallop!
Some of these guys were really good at "drawing the belt" and were much feared and got nicknames like "Death" etc.
(Total agony and half crippling when you got punished for throwing snowballs and your hands were really freezing!

)
Sitting on your hands afterwards was a popular way of easing the pain.

I believe in English schools they got caned on the arse?**

**(Authoritative reference: "The Beano" 1962. "The Bash St. Kids" [D.C.Thompson Publications, Dundee] )

cheers,

Ron

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2009 6:56:28

gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to at_leo_87)

quote:

and welcome back gj! any exciting travelling adventure stories?

Thank you for asking the question, At_Leo; however, at the expense of eyes rolling over incredulous stares in response to my legal-adventures, I found that what lawyers may find exciting in their business travels and exploits generally proves devastatingly boring to a general audience. Only exception, perhaps, that one opposing counsel (a female, for the record) asked me out (!!) but she might have meant to assassinate me at dinner with the gun hidden in the restaurant’s powder room (that imaginative spin does make the story more intriguing, doesn’t it?).

On a different note, I am deeply concerned about my “solea” for the composition challenge. I am afraid that I am deviating from my style to capture more virtuoso phrases and am writing something I do not feel… does anyone experience the “new guitar new inspiration” phenomenon? I think I need a new guitar to find the inspiration…. or perhaps i shoul simply adopt a more “lively” spirit …. in my glass

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2009 7:12:07

ashod

Posts: 227
Joined: Jan. 11 2006

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

Doitsujin : Rofl! いい加減にしろ!!
凄い！日本語を分かる人ここで会うとね！嬉しい俺！
日本が好きな人はフラメンコのことは全然興味はないと今まで思ったよ！
俺も文法の方は下手何だけど、話すこともあんなに上手じゃない...でもまあちょっ
とだけできる。。。
君どうやって日本語話せる？
じゃ、よろしくおねがいします。

Hum, I've been playin guitare for 12 years now, and I play in cafés in paris twice a month with my band, and my cold hands isn't just something in my brain. But it's also true that I don't practice more then 15minutes a day...
It may really be a blood circulation problem in my case, and as John O. said, wine helps me for my concerts. But it's not like I can drink wine everytime I'm gonna exercise! I didn't know that the grape juice would have the same effect though, I thought it was the alcohol that heated me up.
That's one more thing I'm gonna have to do, buy loads of grape juice!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2009 8:34:17

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Hands freezing, particularly rig... (in reply to ashod)

I love this forum.
Just to recap, the question posed was how to solve the problem of playing guitar with cold hands and so far the most knowledgeable community of experts from around the entire planet have come up with
1. Wear surgical gloves with the fingertips cut off.
2. Move to Cairo
3. Drink garlic tea
4. Practice for 20 years so that you dont need to feel your fingers any more.
5. Sit on your hands
6. Engage in some S/M regime with Ron

Just to add my 2 cents, I have read that sexual activity increases peripheral circulation. I think a vigorous bout of lovemaking before a concert is the obvious answer.

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"Ceremonial" by Mark Shurey "Pimientito". CD and digital download vailable on Amazon and
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Dec. 16 2009 9:41:51