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Paso Doble   You are logged in as Guest
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Schieper

 

Posts: 208
Joined: Mar. 29 2017
From: The Netherlands

Paso Doble 

Hi all,

when I was young, handsome and 30kg lighter I used to dance a lot and Paso Doble was one of my favourite dances.

How does that relate to Flamenco?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2019 10:36:22
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Schieper

It’s spanish.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2019 15:09:01
 
henrym3483

Posts: 1584
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Ricardo

lots of traditional dance and song in spain, which is not of flamenco origin, Jota comes to mind.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2019 16:35:31
 
Mark2

Posts: 1871
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Schieper

Some paso dobles are played at bullfights. Bullfighting-flamenco connection is well established. My first flamenco teacher taught me a few arrangements of paso dobles that he considered bullfight tunes. Espana Cani was one of them. They were fun and people really seemed to like them. Not exactly puro.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 14 2019 21:07:03
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Schieper

In interviews several flamencos of the mid-20th century were asked which of the images in the Holy Week processions in Seville they might be particularly attached to. They followed the generally perceived preferences of gitanos for La Virgen de la Macarena and "El Dios del Gran Poder."

La Macarena has her own paso doble, played in slow time by the band that accompanies her, to provide a marching cadence for the 48 costaleros who carry her paso on their shoulders. Since her paso doble was transformed into a florid trumpet solo by the great Mexican Rafael Mendez, it became very popular in that country. La Macarena also has her own drum and bugle music played by the corps which marches with her. Before the procession turns into the Calle Sierpes, nearing the Catedral, you hear the band and the drums and bugles approaching. La Macarena pauses in the the Calle Sierpes for a saeta to be sung to her. The drum and bugle music is often heard on recordings of saetas. (The saetas themselves are unaccompanied.)

Here is one of the most popular paso dobles taurinos, "El Gato Montés," well played by the band from a town just south of Valencia:



Though "paso doble" might be translated as "two-step," not all paso dobles are in 2/4 or 4/4 time. "El Relicario" is in 3/4.



RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2019 7:45:46
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

La Macarena also has her own drum and bugle music played by the corps which marches with her. Before the procession turns into the Calle Sierpes, nearing the Catedral, you hear the band and the drums and bugles approaching. La Macarena pauses in the the Calle Sierpes for a saeta to be sung to her. The drum and bugle music is often heard on recordings of saetas.


Twice in the 1960s and once in 1982, I attended concerts by Carlos Montoya. Carlos always played his version of Saeta, with the drum and bugle music performed on the guitar alone. He accomplished the effect of the drum by crossing the fifth string over the sixth, holding them in that position with the left hand, and with his right hand performing a modified rasgueo that had the tempo and sound of a snare drum. The bugle effect was accomplished on the trebles. It really sounded nice and was always a crowd-pleaser.

Bill

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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2019 22:18:07
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Mark2

...and here is España Cañi (Gypsy Spain), as mentioned by Mark2. The trumpet fanfare at 1:30 is that which traditionally announces the beginning of the third tercio of the corrida, where the matador faces the bull with sword and small cape (muleta).



RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 15 2019 23:53:45
 
kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Richard Jernigan

In Tom and Jerry Episode 108 - Mucho Mouse (1957), "A Spanish cat is more interested in playing flamenco guitar than trying to catch the mouse El Magnifico (Jerry)..."

From 2:26-2:40 you can hear a paso doble - anyone know what the name of it is?



P.S. you have to go to youtube to watch it.

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2019 0:24:49
 
RobJe

 

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to kitarist

Loosely based on España Cañí?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2019 8:25:42
 
flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004
 

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to kitarist

Yup really enjoyed that. Nothing beats T&M. Thanks.

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2019 9:23:01
 
kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to RobJe

quote:

ORIGINAL: RobJe

Loosely based on España Cañí?


I was hoping it might be an actual separate composition that I can find by its name once I know it. Someone on the delcamp forum is irritating me by refusing to believe that this excerpt can possibly be a paso doble

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2019 16:07:54
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to kitarist

RobJe could be on the right track. Pascual Marquina, the composer of España Cañi, lived until 1948. Maybe Hollywood touched the piece up a bit, hoping to avoid copyright problems. But I am by no means a paso doble expert. I just remember a few from corridas in Mexico and Spain.

The fanfare at the end of the Tom & Jerry clip is also altered from the traditional one of the corrida, but i would think the corrida version would be public domain, since I assume it goes back a long time.

It goes back at least to when I was six years old, 75 years ago.😎

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 16 2019 21:45:45
 
kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

España Cañi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan

RobJe could be on the right track. Pascual Marquina, the composer of España Cañi, lived until 1948. Maybe Hollywood touched the piece up a bit, hoping to avoid copyright problems. But I am by no means a paso doble expert. I just remember a few from corridas in Mexico and Spain.


Okay, but there is not doubt that excerpt IS a pasodoble - es verdad, amigo?

Wow, I think I just found ALL OF THEM This is a playlist of more than 1700 of "the best brass band pasodobles ordered by popularity" (!!!)

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5xAy4Ufl2T7W9KJHMIZ1zsyeKxFWF1WI

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 17 2019 1:49:43
 
RobJe

 

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Schieper

We should have looked at IMDB instead of guessing!
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1780411/

Rob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 17 2019 13:03:20
 
edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to henrym3483

quote:

Jota comes to mind.


Although not of flamenco origin the Jota is one of the foundations of flamenco, and is related to the cantiñas

see here

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2019 17:12:34
 
Schieper

 

Posts: 208
Joined: Mar. 29 2017
From: The Netherlands

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Schieper

thanks all. That is some inspiring feedback..

What would be other bullfighting tunes? Appart from paso doble?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 18 2019 18:40:38
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to edguerin

quote:

ORIGINAL: edguerin

quote:

Jota comes to mind.


Although not of flamenco origin the Jota is one of the foundations of flamenco, and is related to the cantiñas

see here


Always heard or read this. I played some jota for dancer students with a bandurria player in my early training period. After understanding more completely the cantiñas family of melodies I still after years can not figure out How in the hell jota is related AT ALL!!! I mean other than the superficial fact of a major key melody and see saw V-I harmony I still don’t get it. Somebody please show me a jota that has melodic parts of the Alegrias, Romeras, Cantiñas, anything... please!

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 19 2019 14:46:11
 
edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Schieper

Well, Faustino Nuñez says:
quote:

La jota tiene un rítmica muy particular que se trasvasaron al flamenco en forma de patrones que se usan una y otra vez. Sin embargo fue en lo melódico y armónico (en los acordes de la guitarra) donde ha dejado una huella más profunda, en las cantiñas nominadas alegrías. En la melodía flamenca la jota dejó su marca en el cante por alegrías, que adaptó muchas melodías joteras, mientras se fundían con el aire de los jaleos gaditanos. Las alegrías no son otra cosa que jotas adaptadas al compás de la soleá al golpe, aflamencando la melodía cantable y con aire bailable.

He underlines this with:
this audio clip
Which sounds convincing enough to me (but of course I'm no expert)

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Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 20 2019 8:06:04
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to edguerin

quote:

ORIGINAL: edguerin

Well, Faustino Nuñez says:
quote:

La jota tiene un rítmica muy particular que se trasvasaron al flamenco en forma de patrones que se usan una y otra vez. Sin embargo fue en lo melódico y armónico (en los acordes de la guitarra) donde ha dejado una huella más profunda, en las cantiñas nominadas alegrías. En la melodía flamenca la jota dejó su marca en el cante por alegrías, que adaptó muchas melodías joteras, mientras se fundían con el aire de los jaleos gaditanos. Las alegrías no son otra cosa que jotas adaptadas al compás de la soleá al golpe, aflamencando la melodía cantable y con aire bailable.

He underlines this with:
this audio clip
Which sounds convincing enough to me (but of course I'm no expert)


At best it starts like buleria de Cadiz, then diverges a lot. “Dicen que van a poner...” matches the opening melody, then it’s really different. But non of the 3 Alegrias melodies nor cantiñas “tiri tiri tran tran”, “cuando andando...” etc, romeras “zarzamora”, mirabras, pinini, Alegrias de Cordoba “preguntale platero”, caracoles.... non of that stuff is even close IMO.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 20 2019 15:56:02
 
joselito_fletan

 

Posts: 187
Joined: Jan. 24 2017
 

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to Schieper

It's carnaval in Cadiz, and "El Selu" has left this little paso doble for all the baldies out there

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 20 2019 21:08:11
 
Schieper

 

Posts: 208
Joined: Mar. 29 2017
From: The Netherlands

RE: Paso Doble (in reply to joselito_fletan

awesome... great idea to use a kazoo as some sort of trumpet impersonator :-)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 21 2019 10:30:49
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