Relief and heat treatment

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Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

Relief and heat treatment

I am thinking of signing my basher blanca up for some heat treatment to flatten out the neck. If she could loose 1mm at the 12th it would be perfect - there's no twisting, or anything funky like that. She's a 2002 guitar from Granada, signed by a luthier, but given what I've read here & been told about the Granada school it wouldn't surprise me if she was factory made - her finish is almost bomb proof. I don't belief the humidity in Guadeloupe has made the relief problem any worse (perhaps it improved things ever so slightly, hard to say), she's always had a crazy banana neck and I've had her about 8 years (bought in Paris).

Here is a rather sceptical review of the sort of thing I had in mind http://www.lutherie.net/neck.html. Despite being sceptical, the article does say "This works marvelously well on guitars needing just a bit of a reset."

Anyone got any experience with this sort of technique for relief problems? Anyone got photos of the technique going horribly wrong on the look of the guitar? I'd appreciate your thoughts on this technique.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 8 2015 7:29:47

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Relief and heat treatment (in reply to Dudnote)

I have some experience on this. I fairly recently did this to a Gerundino that had a a bit of a banana neck. It worked like a charm and was actually really easy to do. I used my old side bending machine that just gathers dust.

Whether it will last remains to be seen as only time will tell but, it only took a week to do and didn't take up a lot of time as it was really just about putting it through heat cycles.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 8 2015 9:59:53

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Relief and heat treatment (in reply to Stephen Eden)

Thanks Stephen

Good to know this can work. It looks so simple I am half tempted to try this myself. One luthier I contacted my email / phone here in England suggested taking the frets off and plaining the fret board - I'm afraid that would leave me a match thin neck at the nut. Even if the neck does move back after 12 months, presumably you can just redo the op, like a regular visit to a physiotherapist to put a back in shape.

Anyone know where I might pick up one of these heating machines?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 9 2015 22:49:40

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Relief and heat treatment (in reply to Dudnote)

If the neck is really whippy and bendable you can also have a Carbon Fiber spar or two in the neck under the fingerboard. That works for guitars that spring back after a heat treatment.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2015 0:10:34

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Relief and heat treatment (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana
If the neck is really whippy and bendable you can also have a Carbon Fiber spar or two in the neck under the fingerboard. That works for guitars that spring back after a heat treatment.

Thanks, that is good to know, one more reason to delay resorting to planing the fretboard.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2015 8:33:35

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: Relief and heat treatment (in reply to Dudnote)

I am afraid you will have to make one of these machines yourself. There are various wasy of achieving it though. If you have a lamp with a powerful light bulb in it you can just that and something heavy on the neck! Not particually precise but it might get the job done.

A refret is usually my first port of call to, however I have found that alot of flamenco guitar necks are already close to if not already on the limit. So it not really an option.

The carbon fibre rod is a good idea. Can it be done without removing the fingerboard? I guess it depends on how good the guitar is, as to whether it is worth going through the expense.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 10 2015 8:51:37

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Relief and heat treatment (in reply to Stephen Eden)

quote:

The carbon fibre rod is a good idea. Can it be done without removing the fingerboard? I guess it depends on how good the guitar is, as to whether it is worth going through the expense.

On less valuable guitars John Sheltion has said he routs through the fingerboard drops in the CF spar and then lays in a fresh spline of ebony.

One presumes he took out the frets first!

I've never done it that way, but if your work is clean I see no problem on a less expensive instrument. I have taken the fingerboard off and fitted the CF spar. A wonderful fix for a bendy neck. I think it bolsters up the sound a bit too on weak necks. Subjective, but, sure does not make them worse.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2015 12:03:54

jshelton5040

Posts: 1500
Joined: Jan. 17 2005

RE: Relief and heat treatment (in reply to estebanana)

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

On less valuable guitars John Sheltion has said he routs through the fingerboard drops in the CF spar and then lays in a fresh spline of ebony.

I haven't done this in a long time since we virtually don't do repairs anymore. The trick is to get the carbon fiber rod as close to the outside surface of the neck as is safely possible. It's a very simple operation taking two days to allow glue to dry but only 2-3 hours of actual labor including replacing frets. Normally I would rather put a back bend in the neck with oversized fret tangs to compensate for warping although this is always a judgement call to get just the right amount of back bend.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2015 14:25:06

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Relief and heat treatment (in reply to jshelton5040)

quote:

I haven't done this in a long time since we virtually don't do repairs anymore. The trick is to get the carbon fiber rod as close to the outside surface of the neck as is safely possible. It's a very simple operation taking two days to allow glue to dry but only 2-3 hours of actual labor including replacing frets. Normally I would rather put a back bend in the neck with oversized fret tangs to compensate for warping although this is always a judgement call to get just the right amount of back bend.

Compression fretting is tricky, yeah. You have to decide to file come of the tangs of some frets and watch carefully as each fret goes in to see how to it is effecting the relief.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2015 14:38:52