PdL and McLaughlin in Australia

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edguerin

Posts: 1589
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

PdL and McLaughlin in Australia

Enjoy!

Hope the link works.

_____________________________

Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2015 16:17:34

Ricardo

Posts: 14802
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (in reply to edguerin)

Cool, one of my favorite vids of these guys, we have seen and discussed it here in the past. This version has a bit higher resolution than the bootleg that was around years ago...at 3:04 you can see the wood grain on the side of the guitar which reveals it to be the SAME guitar that Paco has used on stage since then (1982) till he died last year. This was probably the original finish and you can see the golepeador peeling off at the top. THis was the first time he appears with this guitar as far as I know...the year before he used a different but similar looking one that replaced his stolen conde (famous entre dos aguas video). AFter the movie Carmen, which also features this guitar, he had the whole thing refinished in Red...not sure why...but later finished again several times until it was finally stripped of color and the inner rosette changed out.

As for the piece they play... the quintessential flamenco fusion where they use new kind of chords but the same compas as alegria or solea por buleria. Mclaughlin makes a boo boo during the scratch rhythm and comes in 3 beats early so it's out of compas there and Paco laughs at him...I get the feeling mclaughlin is clueless about that. Also, based on his picking of the rhythm part I can also tell he doesn't feel the internal compas either (I think he feels what would be count 3 and 9 as down beats where as Paco would feel 6 and 12 as the down beat)...also something at the end is off by 3 again but it is a different ending than the original recording which is clearly in compas throughout.

THere used to be an additional piece from this TV spot where they are joined by Al Dimeola for "Aspan"...in fact I still have that on my computer and it was what my source was for most of the "Aspan" tutorial. I hope a better resolution version also surfaces.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2015 16:40:42

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

so it's out of compas there and Paco laughs at him...I get the feeling mclaughlin is clueless about that. Also, based on his picking of the rhythm part I can also tell he doesn't feel the internal compas either

Interesting Ricardo...The out of compas sound does get your attention.

I love Mahavishnu John McLaughlin, but it's a good example of flamenco is more disciplined than fusion free form guitarists were used to at the time. As good of a jazz player JM is, playing with PDL you had to watch your P's and Q's. I admire any professional, whose pulled up a chair next to PDL. No doubt an object lesson not soon forgotten. Always a treat seeing these two together:))

_____________________________

Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2015 18:01:01

Filip

Posts: 403
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (in reply to edguerin)

Ricardo, you mean that the guitar that Paco plays on this video is the same as the one he played on his last tours, and is the same as the one he played on the 1996 DVD (Jazztage)?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2015 18:23:20

Posts: 524
Joined: Jun. 15 2006

RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

Cool, one of my favorite vids of these guys, we have seen and discussed it here in the past. This version has a bit higher resolution than the bootleg that was around years ago...at 3:04 you can see the wood grain on the side of the guitar which reveals it to be the SAME guitar that Paco has used on stage since then (1982) till he died last year. This was probably the original finish and you can see the golepeador peeling off at the top. THis was the first time he appears with this guitar as far as I know...the year before he used a different but similar looking one that replaced his stolen conde (famous entre dos aguas video). AFter the movie Carmen, which also features this guitar, he had the whole thing refinished in Red...not sure why...but later finished again several times until it was finally stripped of color and the inner rosette changed out.

As for the piece they play... the quintessential flamenco fusion where they use new kind of chords but the same compas as alegria or solea por buleria. Mclaughlin makes a boo boo during the scratch rhythm and comes in 3 beats early so it's out of compas there and Paco laughs at him...I get the feeling mclaughlin is clueless about that. Also, based on his picking of the rhythm part I can also tell he doesn't feel the internal compas either (I think he feels what would be count 3 and 9 as down beats where as Paco would feel 6 and 12 as the down beat)...also something at the end is off by 3 again but it is a different ending than the original recording which is clearly in compas throughout.

THere used to be an additional piece from this TV spot where they are joined by Al Dimeola for "Aspan"...in fact I still have that on my computer and it was what my source was for most of the "Aspan" tutorial. I hope a better resolution version also surfaces.

Ricardo

______________

Ricardo do you know if anyone has the tabs for this piece? At least the first part?

_____________________________

TK
http://www.youtube.com/user/Tsolakk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2015 18:58:16

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (in reply to edguerin)

Almost as if Caravaggio and Warhole were trying to paint something together. With Warhole naturally missing out on what it takes.

What an admirable self-confidence McLaughlin had.
I think the one album I got of his must be the most boring venyl I ever bought, already back then when I was accepting almost anything on guitar. I remember playing it for a while and trying to find something in it. It was just empty nudling while trying to let it appear virtuoso.

Irony how such a player helped Paco with becoming more reknown.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2015 21:13:07

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (in reply to Ruphus)

It's alegrias / SxB!! Hell, I never twigged

Respect to JM for only being 1/4 compass out on one occasion. I'd have been X/666 compasses out (where X is some random number that shifts and jumps) though out the whole thing

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

Almost as if Caravaggio and Warhole were trying to paint something together. With Warhole naturally missing out on what it takes.

What an admirable self-confidence McLaughlin had.
I think the one album I got of his must be the most boring venyl I ever bought, already back then when I was accepting almost anything on guitar. I remember playing it for a while and trying to find something in it. It was just empty nudling while trying to let it appear virtuoso.

Irony how such a player helped Paco with becoming more reknown.

Ruphus

Too bad Ruphus you didn't have a different album. I had a tape copy of My Goal's Beyond and it was like nothing else I was hearing around me at the time. A firm favourite of old.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 9 2015 23:57:33

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: PdL and McLaughlin in Australia (in reply to edguerin)

Should there come an opportunity of checking out albums I will search this thread to find back the title "My Goal´s Beyond" and see what gives.
Thanks for the pointer.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2015 8:55:20

Ricardo

Posts: 14802
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (in reply to Filip)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Filip

Ricardo, you mean that the guitar that Paco plays on this video is the same as the one he played on his last tours, and is the same as the one he played on the 1996 DVD (Jazztage)?

Precisely.

Ruphus,

Mclaughlin has moments that sure are boring and indulgent...and others that are sublime. THe energy and depth of his improvisations in this piece are about as good as it gets for me...if the free meter "alap" bores you, skip to the 9/4 rhythmic section at 5:50 till the end:

http://youtu.be/vZJsuctBHaQ

Here is an exquisite duet for guitar and piano as well:
http://youtu.be/Sz_RlITlQQY

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2015 18:18:00

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: PdL and McLaughlin in Australia (in reply to edguerin)

Thanks for the links, Ricardo.

Unfortunately, they don´t impress me still though.

Back then when sessions were more common on private parties, I witnessed spontaneous improvisations that were often times musically more versatile than McLaughlin´s technical more or less one trick pony.
- Admittedly, for most cases with less BPM however.
Played by artists with no big names, glory and admission fees.

And while the first example seems in synch, the piano & guitar example as well is less harmonic than comparable private sessions and also less synchronous than some.

I don´t see something extra ordinary in there. McLaughlin to my understanding had his way because of the celebrated tolerance and embracing of whatever there used to come in the free style chamber of the eighties.
(Boy, what stuff used to be shipped over to Germany´s live caverns at that time! Guys randomly beating their instruments in the name of "Free Jazz". Kakophonies that were embraced by the public rather as symbol of a new anticipated freedom -and deemed intellectuality- than anything.)

I prefer music that tickles my diaphragm with notes in complimenting accordance to definit harmonic structure. (Unfortunately I can´t upload an example of Jazz here.) Filling in notes more or less randomly has no big attraction to me.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 10 2015 20:53:50

Posts: 524
Joined: Jun. 15 2006

RE: PdL and McLaughlin in Australia (in reply to edguerin)

Does anyone have tabs for this?

_____________________________

TK
http://www.youtube.com/user/Tsolakk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2015 1:37:06

rombsix

Posts: 7808
Joined: Jan. 11 2006
From: Beirut, Lebanon

RE: PdL and McLaughlin in Australia (in reply to tk)

quote:

Does anyone have tabs for this?

http://tabsflamenco.com/

_____________________________

Ramzi

http://www.youtube.com/rombsix

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2015 2:14:20

minorthang

Posts: 222
Joined: Dec. 25 2014

RE: PdL and McLaughlin in Australia (in reply to edguerin)

Mclaughin can play some great straight ahead jazz his take on my favorite things i feel is good and well up there

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2015 6:52:54

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (in reply to Ricardo)

Ricardo,

Speaking of PDL and his tone to die for Conde collection...

The one in this clip is really rich in harmonics. Any information on it? PDL is playing Granaina in 1974.

_____________________________

Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2015 16:59:54

Filip

Posts: 403
Joined: Apr. 23 2006
From: Paris

RE: PdL and McLaughlin in Australia (in reply to edguerin)

I had no idea it's the same guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 12 2015 21:01:01

Ricardo

Posts: 14802
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (in reply to SephardRick)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SephardRick

Ricardo,

Speaking of PDL and his tone to die for Conde collection...

The one in this clip is really rich in harmonics. Any information on it? PDL is playing Granaina in 1974.

This was his favorite guitar, not sure the year of it. He has experimented with different strings a lot and gotten very differing results tone wise. For example I am pretty sure he used this for that black and white video where he plays panaderos etc, and the tone is pretty dry and weak harmonically compared to this clip (could be the bridge height too)...this guitar gets a more full and rich tone on his live in Teatro Real, and later Almoraima...but alot has to do with recording issues (mics and mic placement, eq etc)....there are some clips of his famous Entre dos Aguas where one scene is intercut with a different performance on TV (tesoros program and also La Busqueda) and the tonal difference is striking as the scene changes...though it is the same guitar.

Not sure his first recording with this...I am thinking 1970 (El Mundo disc with Pepe and dancer) or perhaps Recital (with 6 guitars but it's hard to hear), or maybe Duende...I am not sure but around that time he started using it. I know it is his favorite because he said so in an interview with the guitar trio (Guitar Player March 1981), where he sadly admits it was stolen from his car the previous year!!! So the last recordings he made were some tracks of the Manuel de Falla disc (I read he used a Lorenzo Alvarez for what I assume are the more classical sounding tracks) and we see it's last tour with Mclaughlin and Larry Coryell in "Meeting of the Spirits" 1979.

It's out there somewhere, perhaps it will surface some day? The rosewood pattern makes it easy to identify. I find it crazy that the favorite instruments of both Paco and Manolo Sanlucar were stolen but are residing in their guitar cases somewhere in this world, one day to be discovered!

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2015 17:18:07

Posts: 524
Joined: Jun. 15 2006

RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (in reply to Ricardo)

The sound of this guitars amazing. There is no BS in the sound of this guitar. Very full, dry and powerful. I can see why it was his favorite

_____________________________

TK
http://www.youtube.com/user/Tsolakk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2015 17:25:29

Ricardo

Posts: 14802
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (in reply to Ricardo)

And since we are on subject of Paco's guitars....here was his first favorite negra (I assume)...it's got some interesting details that I identified it with, the tie block for one is quite unique if you look close, I have not seen another conde with that exact style. (short sides like the blancas had, but a skinny inner rectangle like modern Condes use now). The tone is deep and hollow/woody in the basses compared to his later favorite negras, but with a bright metallic treble sound. The recordings I believe he used it for are Fabulosa, the Festival Flamenco Gitano 1 and 3 discs, the Niño Ricardo tribute Alegria, etc. Here are some videos:

http://youtu.be/Yjd1ID-OmwI
http://youtu.be/5X6Vji2Cy-I
http://youtu.be/j48AShur35A
And though he appears in many photos with it throughout his career, he didn't use it again (that I know of) until this movie....and in HD quality it looks extremely well kept for an old guitar:
http://youtu.be/K9FfOpBaK0I

I don't know why he didn't bring back into stage use after his other guitar was stolen...I notice he tended to tune it sharp...so perhaps the tension was too low for his taste? Just conjecture.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2015 17:32:03

SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014

RE: PdL an McLaughlin in Australia (in reply to Ricardo)

Interesting Ricardo...

I never noticed the tie block unique features before. Guess I was too busy studying PDL hands.

On the stolen guitars - It does make you wonder where they ended up. I would like to think in the hands of some collector. Unfortunately, stolen guitars have a history of ending up in most neglectful hands. Still, hope springs eternal. Maybe than will go up for auction one day.

_____________________________

Rick

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Apr. 13 2015 21:40:51