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Left handed flamenco guitarists
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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 RE: Left handed flamenco guitarists (in reply to El Kiko)
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quote:
how many great players would be have had their music lost to the world if they were forced to go against their own nature ... ?
An example would be the great American blues and folk musician and singer Elizabeth Cotten. She played a right-handed guitar left-handed, in standard tuning without re-stringing it, i.e., she played it left-handed upside down, playing bass with her fingers and melody with her thumb. Her unique style was called, unsurprisingly, "Cotten picking."
Elizabeth Cotten's best known folk song is the old standby "Freight Train," a song that has been covered by everyone from Peter, Paul, and Mary and Pete Seeger to Doc Watson.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Apr. 13 2015 16:16:49
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Left handed flamenco guitarists (in reply to Sr. Martins)
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quote:
Although she didn't "brag" about it, the fact is that she didn't know music theory. I was about to look her up on youtube but it's pointless now since people with no musical knowledge only produce inferior music. I'd rather spend my time listening to composers who are proud of knowing their craft.
People with no knowledge of music theory only produce inferior music??? You think that because Elizabeth Cotten didn't know music theory she was not proud of knowing the craft she did possess??? Elizabeth Cotten was making music and producing songs when your parents were kids, and her music and songs have been covered by many artists since. Her craft is legendary.
You seem to have such an inflated opinion of yourself and your knowledge of music theory, Sr. Martins; but tell me, fifty years from now how many artists are going to be playing music and songs composed by you? How many musicians will be covering your compositions, oh exalted one?! You are rapidly becoming a parody of yourself.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Apr. 13 2015 17:48:33
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Mark2
Posts: 1872
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
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RE: Left handed flamenco guitarists (in reply to tele)
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Flamenco is one of the easiest styles to learn as a lefty in part because of the tradition of learning face to face. As a lefty facing a right handed guitarist it's like looking in a mirror. This is a huge advantage on a gig where you are winging it. Or playing with another guitarist. I think I'm able to see what they are doing more clearly than if I was also right handed. Very simple to see what the guy is doing. I'm a lefty and although I didn't start with flamenco, had no problems playing in dance companies, playing in groups, or of course playing solo.
I have three more than decent flamenco guitars that were all right handed instruments. The only mods needed were changing the strings around and filing the nut. I have one of Ethan's guitars and it did require a little extra work but it plays very well and of course, sounds great. There is the tradition in flamenco of passing a guitar around during juergas, but I've found in the States that that is of little concern.
I'm on Lester's waiting list and he's going to make me a lefty. I'm wondering how much more comfortable it's going to be. Hopefully it will be a noticeable difference. The biggest problem is with good electric guitars. Finding them can be an issue. Also trying out other's guitars. In fact, my knowledge of guitars in general is less than a right hander with comparable experience. Lefty's tend to hold onto instruments more than guys who can always find another similar instrument. There are lefty violins(and there are pros in orchestras who play left handed), ouds, cellos, sitars, you name it.
I feel, at least in my case, playing left handed was the right decision. Back in high school, a buddy let me borrow my first guitar and it was a right handed steel string. When I got my first $60.00 steel string a month or so later, I switched the strings and made immediate strides. But I'm a strongly left handed person-I'm left footed too. Both my brothers were also left handed. As far as Dudnote's teacher's opinion, since he obviously isn't a left handed player, his opinion is perhaps less informed than mine. After 35 years of flamenco activity, I can give you a list of things that have affected my ability to reach a higher level. Playing left handed is not one of them.
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Date Apr. 13 2015 17:59:59
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Richard Jernigan
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
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RE: Left handed flamenco guitarists (in reply to Sr. Martins)
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There is "music theory" as taught in academia, and on the other hand a "theory of music" embodied in the compositions of the likes of Ramon Montoya, Sabicas, and Niño Ricardo.
My sister-in-law, who ran the Nurse Practitioner training program at a major medical school told of a parallel situation. A woman with Type II diabetes was labeled as "non-compliant" with the measures meant to control her blood sugar. My sister-in-law interviewed her. The woman said, "Yes, I use that little meter. When it's too high I go out and work in my garden for a while, and at dinner time I leave the potatoes on my plate. I do a few other things to keep those numbers low."
Measurement of long-term indicators of blood sugar level (A1C) indicated that the woman had been very effective in controlling her blood sugar level, without applying the prescribed insulin dosage algorithm. She didn't verbalize her strategy in the same way as the physicians, but her understanding and strategy were effective.
I read somewhere that when Montoya took a few lessons from the classical guitarist Miguel Llobet, he asked whether he should learn to read music. Llobet's advice was said to be, "No, you are fine working the way you do now."
When asked, Sabicas always claimed to be self taught, and unable to read music.
Niño Ricardo worked for Javier Molina, a noted guitarist and teacher, when Molina ran a tablao. So did Manolo de Huelva. I don´t know whether they picked up any of their shared falsetas from Molina, or whether they came from other sources. Like Molina, Manolo played classical as well as flamenco pieces in concert. But I know of no evidence that Ricardo knew any "music theory" as taught in academia.
Were Montoya, Sabicas and Niño Ricardo worse composers than say, Julian Arcas? Or did they each have their own effective "theory of music" than enabled them to compose very well?
RNJ
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Date Apr. 13 2015 18:06:09
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3458
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Left handed flamenco guitarists (in reply to Sr. Martins)
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quote:
The joke is exactly the huge gap between what I actually write and what you understand.
I suggest you re-read the entire "Musical Knowledge" thread which you started, as well as your posts on this thread, and it will become evident what your original thoughts were, and are, about those who have no knowledge of music theory. It is clear that you are now trying to pass this attitude off as a "joke." But what you are now calling a "joke" is right in line with the thoughts you expressed in the "Musical Knowledge" thread.
Why you are now attempting to shift positions is known only to you. Your statement in the "Musical Knowledge" thread that guitarists are filling the "dumb ass musician role" (a direct quote) pretty well sums up everything you have posted on the topic. It is not very graceful language, but it certainly clarifies your position. Or was that a "joke" too?
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Apr. 13 2015 18:38:28
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