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A luthier/repairman friend of mine just cut off a handful of corian nuts and saddle blanks and gave them to me to use, he said it is really good stuff. I haven't used it before, does anyone use it, and do you have any opinion about it?
Just try it and find out for yourself. We're not exactly talking rocket surgery here. Sheesh.
Never mind, I found a number of interesting discussions on other acoustic guitar sites already, it seems Martin has been using it for nuts for a good while and many luthiers do have a lot of good info about the hardness, sound, performance long term in saddles, etc. I gather from most that it does perform well as a nut, however it may have a tendency to crack when milled to saddle dimensions. don't worry, there will be no further discussion here from me regarding anything about my guitar repair or building or playing for that matter.
quote:
What problem are you trying to solve with this stuff? It might work ok, but why bother with it?
I didn't indicate any problems that needed to be solved, I simply asked if others had experience and opinions about the performance characteristics of this material. There are a number of reasons to bother with this and any other materials or construction methods/designs related to guitar construction. There is the aspect of sound. For instance, one material can produce a brighter sound than another and thus may be a reason to select it for that purpose. For one thing, I have access to an endless, free supply of material for all future repairs/building, and that may be a choice I make, depending upon the performance characteristics. The nonsensical responses make me recall when William Shatner told the trekkies to just "get a life". good bye foroflamenco forum, my first impression was wrong. moderators, feel very free to bin this thread altogether.
Sure, take your ball and go home. We have not finished batting you around enough yet. Come back.
Don't take it so hard. See people around the Foro are like reptiles; if you don't feed them the right kind of lettuce they turn their noses and get bitchy. The right kind of lettuce a happens to be sludgy orange factory guitars which cost under $1000.00 and sound like a $75,000.00 Barbero.
How would know that?
If you want general information go to the MIMF forum, but if you need flamenco guitar specific information you will not find it there, or anywhere else. Ask about that here. You have a chance of getting some good information about how flamenco guitars work.
I don't think anyone means any harm, it's just pack of jaded smart alecs.
The answer is that Corian works, bur you need to check it out yourself and see how it tools and performs over a period of time. Say six months. personally I don't like synthetic nuts and saddles. If I could I would use ivory every time. But due to the availability of cow bone nut a saddle blanks and the difficulty of traveling with and politics around ivory, I use bone.
Ask about that here. You have a chance of getting some good information about how flamenco guitars work.
estebanana, I asked because it seemed like it may be a good selection specifically for a flamenco guitar and that was what I thought the luthiers here were all about, I was wrong, and there is no ball involved, just a chance to have some intelligent discussion about materials for flamenco guitars. Now I see your added edit, that is a good opinion based upon your experience so thanks. The luthier that gave it to me absolutely loves this stuff so you see how opinions differ.
you are posting faster than i can edit, but thanks
btw, I was merely asking for opinions because I have a number of guitars that I am repairing that also need either saddles or nuts and I have begun building my first "flamenco" guitar and trying to capture that unique sound with all the means I can muster.
I apologize for being a smart a**, and this group can be a tough crowd. Don't take it personally. You'll find a lot of dumb opinions you'll have to pick through, but in the middle of it you will find some good advice and ideas about building. There are 8 or 10 more or less full time flamenco builders who post here, focus on what they say and don't think too much about the rest. That way you can find some information. There is a lot of static sometimes because people who don't build guitars post stuff that does not make sense, or they want opinions on guitars they want to buy or they want to show off one they just bought, you have to parse through it.
Corian, try it and report back. Building a flamenco, keep it lightish weight thin the ribs a lot, but don't compromise them. pay attention to cross grain stiffness of the top and how with works with a light bridge. Study a guitar you like and try to copy it. People who are showing their first flamenco guitar here get treated pretty well because it's not easy to make and is appreciated here.
I have this piece of Corian left over from our cabinet installation several years back. When I began making guitars, mandolins, and etc., I thought I would have enough Corian to last the rest of my life. After working with the two materials, I prefer bone over Corian. So far all of my clients that are needing new nuts or saddles will specify "bone". It's all a matter of preference!
you are posting faster than i can edit, but thanks
btw, I was merely asking for opinions because I have a number of guitars that I am repairing that also need either saddles or nuts and I have begun building my first "flamenco" guitar and trying to capture that unique sound with all the means I can muster.
Hey man, just a warning about flamenco. It is a VERY traditional based art form and that goes for the music, the dance, singing, and the instrument itself. Jose Ramirez III complained in his book that flamenco people are extremely rigid in their tastes. After all his innovations with the classical guitar design, his flamencos had to all be the same style as his grandfather and father. Every time he tried something clever, the flamenco player said "oh, nice guitar, but it is NOT flamenco"....simple as that. And that is just the way it goes man. Some people are very carefully able to sneak little things here or there, but don't take it personal if MANY flamenco minded folks simply jump at any "new" idea with a "what the F??" or "don't even try it!!!!" type attitude, like guard dogs. It's simply a natural instinct to protect and preserve tradition.
RE: Corian nuts, saddles (in reply to Wayne Brown)
Thank you Mr. Faulk and Brown, the advice I have searched and found elsewhere, has been in favor of bone, including Martin Co. which apparently opts for bone on all high end models. I think I will just reserve the use of this corian on several low end repair jobs. However LMI does say that it is a good choice for transducers. I also found a couple of youtube videos that do not favor corian, here is one such video: based upon that, I am not exactly thrilled.
Yes, I am reading that thinning is key. I built a classical many years ago, by hand, with planes and just the Sloane book for reference. It was not great at all and I believe it was due to my not working the sides, top, and back thin enough. I have done two steel strings from kits and they were pretty good. I also want to make a concert size ukulele. Mostly I have rebuilt and repaired guitars over the years. As I approach retirement from my job, I have a renewed interest in building, flamenco in particular. I have always used bone for good guitars.
Ricardo, I think that you are precisely correct, I thank you for the caution!
You will find the search function on here invaluable. There is a lot of Flamenco guitar building info on this site, you just won't find it anywhere else; neck angle, setup, doming, pulsation etc. Once you do some snooping around here, you will realize what info is missing from other forums and books.
I hope you don't really leave, Im new here too,, and there are some big dogs who may growl. but theres a pecking order in almost everything. good or bad.
Thanks very much Sean and Steve, I think you are both right. (but there were no hits at all here for a search for "corian")
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try it and report back
I will be doing some thorough comparisons with this material vs bone and tusq, but I don't see any point in reporting any findings here, nor any need for any other questions here from me, as you say Sean, there is some other information to be mined from the historical threads.
Mr administrator would you kindly delete my account. I'm appalled at the way this gentleman who just asked a simple question has been treated with such childish comments and there's no excuse for it. And its not like this is some isolated instance either....I've seen it over and over in the few short months I've been a member here.
As a beginner I'm reluctant to start a thread or make a comment for fear of being treated the same way as this gentleman. All this forum is for the newcomer is a database. The standard answer around here is ..."if you'll do a search you'll see that's been discussed a thousand times." It leaves a person with the feeling of ..."we don't have time to answer your stupid question...can't you see we're discussing beer pornography here!"
I've never in my life read as much useless psyco-babel mumbo jumbo talk. I thought this forum was about promoting the art of flamenco to newcomers and a new generation of young people to carry into the future but obviously I was wrong. Its nothing more than a private club for a handful of egotistical, narcissistic jerks.
And of course I'm not talking about everyone here. There's plenty of very nice "ready to help" members but the forum seems to be dominated by just a few of the other types. So there....go ahead and tear me a new one...its what you do best. Yes I'll take my ball and go play elsewhere.
( I loved the very first books of Garfield! Too bad folks don´t return lent books.)
The forums diversity and complexity is close to real life. Only that many of its members are different from Joe Average ( which I personally enjoy).
I know how the pigheaded neglection of inventions or renewals feels, and that it must feel brusque to be pointed to former discussions. I agree that it won´t hurt to give a little heads up nonetheless, and often times it will be given, actually. Still, all in all new members should be treated more kindly. That´s correct.
On the other hand, don´t be too sensitive.
With my first posts I dared some sacrileges, including that PdL was mortal and in response was more or less chased through the foros alleys.
If taken the fancing as offence and leaving, I would had missed many interesting, educating and entertaining discussions.
I have seen actually unbearable coarse in forums like the early years of Cubase for instance. ( Crowded by stupidly rude kids.) But apart of such extremes I see a lot of value with authentic plattforms were friendlyness and readiness to help is blooming on sometimes not so perfect but natural behaviour.
Content wise, in terms of experience, resource and wisdom the foro is hard to beat. It might turn out a great place if you give it some time.
As a beginner I'm reluctant to start a thread or make a comment for fear of being treated the same way as this gentleman. All this forum is for the newcomer is a database. The standard answer around here is ..."if you'll do a search you'll see that's been discussed a thousand times." It leaves a person with the feeling of ..."we don't have time to answer your stupid question...can't you see we're discussing beer pornography here!"
You kind of put your finger on the problem.
The things that get posted in the luthery sections are often things guitar makers do not want to respond to. For example, why should I take time to clarify points about a guitar some one wants to buy and take time from my day building to help a dealer I do not know make a sale? The reason is because it is a professional courtesy to help people. But at some point for the pros there are diminishing returns because the luthier sections gets hit with lots of topics that are either off base, should be in the general section or are better researched elsewhere.
The amount of discussions about actual guitar making has diminished because of so many off topic discussions in the luthery section. It's made the atmosphere tense.
As a beginner I'm reluctant to start a thread or make a comment for fear of being treated the same way as this gentleman. All this forum is for the newcomer is a database. The standard answer around here is ..."if you'll do a search you'll see that's been discussed a thousand times." It leaves a person with the feeling of ..."we don't have time to answer your stupid question...can't you see we're discussing beer pornography here!"
I just went through your posts and peoples responses and it seems to me like people have been very gracious, i think your being hyper sensitive.
In addition, this is not a 1-800 help line. It's a forum, your going to get a slice of humanity and all its ugliness as well as it's beauty. This is how people behave when they're not talking to you in sales situation......
I never tried corian, but I tried tusq and I much prefer bone nuts and saddles for all my guitars (acoustic, electric and flamenco). The sound is noticeably brighter with richer overtones. I've only built one flamenco guitar but if this is your first build I think you can't go wrong with bone as saddle and nut material - it's cheap, easy to work and sounds great. Big factories like Martin, Taylor, Gibson etc. are looking for synthetic materials because that way they can get nuts and saddles pre-made in big quantities and it's cheaper for them than hand-made bone equivalents. They still put bone nuts/saddles on their custom/top of the line models.
Thanks to all opinionaters, yes, all sources are confirming that it is not as good, and certainly not better than bone, if I use it, it will be for cheaper laminate guitar repairs that have plastic. I just thought I would ask for a general viewpoint/opinion from the experts and that is all, I sure didn't think a harmless little survey about an alternate material would engender and incite a situation here, so I won't be doing this again. As I said, I received a free handful of blanks from a luthier friend, for free. I can tell you why my luthier friend uses it. A bone nut blank is about 5 bucks and saddle blank is about 6 bucks at Stew Mac, then with shipping, he kinda hates Stew Mac prices, and I can't say that I am really enamored with them myself. I am aware of other cheaper sources, such as bones at the pet store. He builds maybe one guitar or so a year, his sole business is instrument repair of guitars, basses, violins, banjos, mandolins, teaching etc. so he uses it a lot, and he has a huge free supply of it. Times are kinda hard, so if he can operate any cheaper,and thus eat a little better, then he will do it. We are just cheap bastards, even though I have a lot of money, but he doesn't.
I've been using it for years and think it works great (though I have to admit I mostly use bone these days). I've tested it against bone, ivory, buffalo horn, and even carbon fiber. The fact that it's density is consistent I think is an advantage. Not all Corian is created alike and I've found the DuPont brand to be the best. All others I've handled are far too soft which may why its reputation is a bit sketchy.
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