GUITARRA FLAMENCA FELIPE CONDE REEDICIÓN DOMINGO ESTESO

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erictjie

Posts: 163
Joined: Apr. 11 2011

GUITARRA FLAMENCA FELIPE CONDE REEDI...

i understand that you get what you paid for, but not for a guitar.
a Ferrarri GTO 559 worth what you paid for , a guitar for nearly 20K euro is that justifiable?
a $ 3K unknown luthier are making a garbage guitar compare to Hermanos??????
convince me if it worth to buy. then i will buy it

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2012 9:43:05

Stephen Eden

Posts: 914
Joined: Apr. 12 2008
From: UK

RE: GUITARRA FLAMENCA FELIPE CONDE R... (in reply to erictjie)

I won't be able to convince you!

You could probably buy a guitar from most of the makers on the forum for the same amount of money and get a hell of alot more for your money

_____________________________

Classical and Flamenco Guitars www.EdenGuitars.co.uk

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2012 11:36:58

TANúñez

Posts: 2559
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
From: TEXAS

RE: GUITARRA FLAMENCA FELIPE CONDE R... (in reply to erictjie)

quote:

a guitar for nearly 20K euro is that justifiable?

Not to me. The question is what's a guitar or particular guitar worth to YOU? if a certain guitar is worth 20K to you then it's justifiable.

quote:

a $ 3K unknown luthier are making a garbage guitar compare to Hermanos??????

Not true for every guitar/maker. A lot of unknowns make a better guitar.

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Tom Núñez
www.instagram.com/tanunezguitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2012 12:01:17

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: GUITARRA FLAMENCA FELIPE CONDE R... (in reply to erictjie)

Anyone who pays $20,000 for a guitar - there's a bridge right here in Brooklyn I would be happy to sell them. With the possible exception of a historical or rare guitar.

Ramon

_____________________________

Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2012 13:20:09

Ricardo

Posts: 14821
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: GUITARRA FLAMENCA FELIPE CONDE R... (in reply to erictjie)

It's so good guitar you don't know what you are missing. Esteso is gone, but this is the closest you can get. A rare gift. Please buy now!!!!

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2012 16:32:49

keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: GUITARRA FLAMENCA FELIPE CONDE R... (in reply to erictjie)

buy a 10k guitar of your choice and send me 10k

you probably will get as good of a guitar as spending 20k

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2012 21:18:53

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: GUITARRA FLAMENCA FELIPE CONDE R... (in reply to TANúñez)

I have bought a few expensive guitars. They include my favorite classical and favorite flamenco of all I have played. When I am gone my children's will certainly not regret that their old Dad spent money on guitars. They will get back more than I spent. But I wouldn't spend 20K on a guitar sold by a distant relative of Domingo Esteso, and made by who knows who.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2012 21:58:21

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: GUITARRA FLAMENCA FELIPE CONDE R... (in reply to erictjie)

In various specialized flamenco guitar shops i tried out various 3K guitars for my students (including the cheaper Condes) but never liked any of them. In stead of the adventure of finding a nice guitar we ended up searching for the least problematic guitar in stock. The majority suffered very bad adjustments of the bridge bones, making them very difficult to play/judge/compair. No way telling a re-adjustment would solve the problems or would still leave us with additional problems like a bad neck. Only 4 out of 20 guitars were "more or less playable" as they were offered. As it turned out the 2k guitar from an unknown builder did indeed beat the 3k guitars from established names like Conde, but even that one i would never trade for my old 1972 triplex $250 Ibanez that indeed plays like a 20K Conde. However, playing like a 20 K guitar is one thing (that's just a matter of measures) sounding like it quite another and that's were the the big K's are needed (unless you are very lucky). And Richard Jernigan is right.... a good guitar will only raise in value. 30 years ago that 15-20K guitar would have cost you only 1K. That equals 1700% interest, but only on paper, unless you find someone crazy enough to pay such an amount of money. I'm afraid it's just like houses, their worth a lot but selling them for "the right price" is as difficult as obtaining one (from the buyers point of view). I'm afraid that's present day marked development and the decreasing wood-stock quality of luthiers will only make things worse on the long turn. Speaking about long terms....unlike violins top class guitars will loose their sound over the years and will eventually only have historical value. I played a 19th century Jose Ramirez once and was not impressed at all.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 17 2012 23:24:04

Erik van Goch

Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: GUITARRA FLAMENCA FELIPE CONDE R... (in reply to erictjie)

As a brand new member i just had a look at some some of the other forums and was pleasantly surprised to find myself a various range of very interesting vintage flamenco guitars, often offered for (extremely) low prizes. Personally i lack the knowledge to judge them on there merits.... are they under-prized? are mine over-prized? or are they just not as good as the ones i happen to know.

A dutch flamenco magazine ones was very surprised to find out Manolo Sanlucar was playing a classical Jose Ramirez because "that type of instrument was known to be one of the hardest guitars to play". It is indeed, but what they didn't seem to know was that the classical Jose Ramirez guitars from the early 60ties (when he was still was a student of Contreras) happens to be the best playable guitars available. You can probably buy several Jose Ramirez guitars from the 70ties for the prize you have to pay for one classical Jose Ramirez from the early 60ties. Within a very short period of time they changed from being excellent to being crap, just like a good or a bad wine year. Although i wouldn't recommend you to buy a classical Jose Ramirez guitar from the 70ties, it would be an excellent period to buy yourself a Jose Ramirez Flamenco guitar. I have no idea how good a flamenco Ramirez from the sixties is, nor a Conde from the 70ties or a Gerundino from the 60ties. You simply can't know everything.

The main difference between a standard guitar and a top level concert guitar is the way it projects it's sound. My cheap triplex Ibanez produces more or less the same sound in every direction and a mic will pick up the same consistent sound on various parts of the guitar. A top class guitar on the other hand directs various parts of the audio spectrum to specialized parts of the guitar. As a result a closely placed mic will only pick up a limited selection of the audio spectrum making your top class guitar sound highly unbalanced and equally bad or maybe even worse then the cheaper guitar. In an acoustic situation the top class guitar has the better hand, but the way it projects it's sound strongly varies from guitar to guitar. The big question is how it will cope with various situations. Even when you are able to play the instrument it is very difficult to judge it without the help of someone with capable hands and/or trained ears (you simply cant play the guitar and listen to it from a distance at the same time).

Obviously the first task from a concert guitar is to project it's sound into the direction of the audience in a packed concert hall. But as a musician you also want to enjoy that full and rich sound yourself. Not all concert guitars are able to do so. Some sound excellent to the players ears but can't please the audience at all, and other guitars sound superb to the public butt only average and far from inspirational to the person playing it. Only a guitar that is able to inspire both the player and the audience is worth 20K to me. My father has one like that. If you sit in front of it it doesn't sound very impressive at all (it actually sounds quite bad) but if you take some distance you can enjoy the same superb sound the player is experiencing and with the possible exception of the first row(s) it can easily mesmerize a fully packed concert hall to even the most remote back rows.

My very expensive Conde can sound superb to it's player, but fails to deliver in a concert hall situation due to incomplete sound projection (part of the frequency spectrum projects in the opposite direction). An other instrument that didn't seem to deliver in the privacy of our home did do surprisingly well in a concert situation. Our best guitar happens to be a Gerundino. Unfortunately it doesn't reveal it's temperament to just any player an it will only serve someone able and willing to kick it's ass with loads of energy (ore someone willing to chance strings every single day). Unfortunately i'm not able to do either in other words i'm not capable enough to kiss it awake. The only one i know that is able to reveal it's temperament is it's previous owner who happens to be Paco Pena. When you have the privilege to play one of his regular guitars they seem to remember his energy for a while, producing a wall of sound. But after a while they will lose that quality, like a flower that is deprived from it's water. And when Paco pics up one of our guitars you can see the opposite reaction.... after a wile the guitar blossums, like a flower receiving water after years of dryness. So you see it can be pretty tricky to validate a guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 18 2012 5:52:27