Neck Angle

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Neck Angle

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MauiFlamenco

Posts: 17
Joined: Dec. 8 2009
From: Maui Hawaii

Neck Angle

I just completed my first guitar, a beautiful Flamenco Negra. However, I did cheat, and put in a bolt on neck. It sounded amazing though, and I gave it to my dad.
However
I am very interested in creating another Flamenco model, but I want to make it with a spanish heel and block. (no bolts)
Does anybody know how I could get started, so that I can accurately gauge the neck angle? I dont have a Solera? Is this something I can order? I have all proper tools, I just need to know how to start this out. Perhaps a DVD? Any positive advise would be great.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2012 4:10:08

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to MauiFlamenco)

Hey Maui,

Just make more the way you made them. The Solera Police are not going to put you in Bolton Prison if you don't comply.

I went to Bolton Prison, just to watch them cry,
Those overbearing zealots who have solera minds.
I went down to Bolton Prison, just to watch them cry.
You know you can't put me in there, because my nuts are tight and dry.

Solera Warden Anders tried to catch my legs,
But I greased them up with hide glue, and he fell on his face,
Old Anders was fretting..... he fumbled with his pegs,
I took a swig of Everclear then I sprayed him down with mace.

Then Gimpy little Andy grabbed my plane and saw,
He's a mean guard at Bolton, wants me behind his bars,
He tried to steal my router, but his hands was just too raw,
I busted his solera with one karate chop, took his key a stole his car

(spoken word part)

Can't put me in Bolton Prison...noooo no.

Estebanana that dirty talking pig, was off eating donuts like some fat big wig,
he was braggin about soleras....... and climbing the Sierras
All the while I gave him the slip. Because I ain't going to Bolton Prison, that just ain't hip.

Chorus

The Solera Police are coming, but I give them the slip,
The Solera Police are coming, and my neck angles fine,
I'm an outlaw bolt on maker, but they don't get my trip,
The Solera Police are coming, but my neck joints are sublime.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2012 5:03:27

MauiFlamenco

Posts: 17
Joined: Dec. 8 2009
From: Maui Hawaii

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to estebanana)

Thanks for the words of encouragement "Estebanana". After a few moments of shock and entertainment, I just realized that you should probably work for NASA or something.
I will make my next guitar as a bolt on neck, and simultaneously do more research on making a Solera, (just for the experience).
Thanks again. Im off to my garage AKA shop

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2012 5:56:52

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to MauiFlamenco)

quote:

I just realized that you should probably work for NASA or something.

Yes I should, I should build guitars for the Mission to Mars.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2012 6:29:17

Andy Culpepper

Posts: 3023
Joined: Mar. 30 2009
From: NY, USA

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to MauiFlamenco)

LOL.. great song.

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http://www.andyculpepper.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2012 12:47:25

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to MauiFlamenco)

The soleara defines the neck angle. Make one and you'll be glad you did.

Courtnall's book gives instructions. I do it more simply: ramp the neck portion of the solera with a block plane, using winding sticks and a straight edge to check the progress and the result. The neck portion will be 320 mm long from the 12th fret location so it ends before the headplate would get in the way. Courtnall recommends ramping it 3 mm over its length but I find less tilt more appropriate for flamenco guitars. Courtnall also scoops out the belly to correspond to the doming of the soundboard. Instead I route out the whole area below the lower harmonic bar (CORRECTION: I MEANT BELOW THE UPPER HARMONIC BAR) to within a half inch or so of the plantilla. It works: the inside edges should be rounded a bit so they don't dent the soundboard when fan braces are glued on with go bars; they hold up the perimeter of the soundboard while the belly is pushed down by the go bars. If the solera is not made of very stiff material that won't warp, make sure it's clamped to something stiff and straight when gluing on the back.

I agree with estebanana, below, that it is not necessary to support the neck along its entire length; just at the nut will do. Here is a picture of a solera that I shimmed up at the nut to reduce the neck angle; I also shimmed it at the belly to reduce the doming. It works great.

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Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 11 2012 15:45:56

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to MauiFlamenco)

This is how I simplified the neck angle setting procedure on my solera.

I glued a straight lath to the side of the neck extension that goes out 325mm from the 12th fret neck/body join. My solera is a piece of soft clear pine glued on top of 3/4 plywood.

The lath extends the absolute plane of the solera by indexing off the top surface where the upper bout lays face down. The lath is perfectly parallel to the body and extends to exactly where the nut will be (mas o menos a few mm) depending on the scale.

To set the neck angle I measure at the root of the neck 12th fret and then shim the neck at the nut indexing off the lath. Then I decide how much neck angle I want, say 2mm and subtract 2mm from the measurement I took at the 12th fret, pull the shims out a bit and put a cam clamp over the neck shims an neck extension, which pins the neck angle right there at an absolute 2mm forward.

The explanation sounds more complicated that it really is. The approach is low tech.

Picture:

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 12 2012 6:10:48

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to MauiFlamenco)

The neck does not need to be supported along its whole length, it just needs to be held at near the nut end in the right position. The space between the neck extension and the neck allows you to look at the neck angle from the side against the plane of the solera.

I figured this out by being lazy rather than smart. I hated making the drooping neck extension with hinges or planing it in because it always went sideways or was unstable.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 12 2012 6:17:59

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to MauiFlamenco)

another view _ I basically threw the whole thing out he window and bought a packet of door shims and have lived happily without the neck laying on the extension. It's accurate as you make it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 12 2012 6:23:15

estebanana

Posts: 9352
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

quote:

Instead I route out the whole area below the lower harmonic bar to within a half inch or so of the plantilla. It works: the inside edges should be rounded a bit so they don't dent the soundboard when fan braces are glued on with go bars; they hold up the perimeter of the soundboard while the belly is pushed down by the go bars.

The old Mexicans just glued rope around plantilla, it's true all you have to do is catch the edge of the top. You can also use some flexible flat laths and put them on top of the fans after you glue them down to make leaf spring clamp. Just set a heavy plane on the laths and it flexes the arch in. Rope, sticks and a ruler is all you need.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 12 2012 6:31:51

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Hi Ethan

I love your solution now that I understand it. But...how do you control the go bars so that there is no distortion to the soundboard by unequal pressure? Or is the soundboard's symmetrical resistance to deformation enough?
And how about profiling the underside of the bridge itself if you don't know the curveture of the s/board? I guess at least you know the depth of the curve.

And finally...sorry...I guess this method could be used from the lower harmonic bar as well?

Thanks.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2013 12:27:17

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to El Burdo)

quote:

Or is the soundboard's symmetrical resistance to deformation enough?

For a while I was concerned about this--particularly as my go bars of wood have different strengths--but the resistance of the spruce, it being greater closer to the edges, wins out and everything comes out symmetrical.

I leave the bottoms of bridges flat and they bend a little (particularly the wings) over over the doming of the soundboard when I glue them on with two cam clamps outside the soundbox. My flamenco bridges are one quarter inch thick at the thickest part and one eighth inch thick on the wings.

I do glue both harmonic bars to the soundboard (after shaping the fan bracing) with go bars on the solera.

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_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2013 12:55:42

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Thanks. I'm also tempted to rout the whole of the neck down say 4mm and shim it up at the nut.

You are doming up to the top harmonic bar - would this method be OK from the lower bar do you think?

Also, are you using 18mm mdf? You don't need any further reinforcement?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2013 13:09:23

Ramon Amira

Posts: 1025
Joined: Oct. 14 2009
From: New York City

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to MauiFlamenco)

Why not - Frankenstein had a bolted on neck . . .

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Classical and flamenco guitars from Spain Ramon Amira Guitars

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2013 14:46:03

Morante

Posts: 2180
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to Ramon Amira)

¡Olé mi arma! Por fin un poco de gracia en Foro Flamencoguitarra

Fenders have always had bolted necks, sound as good as Gibson and cost half as much. The world is yours, go for it! (don´t forget the truss rod

)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2013 15:20:10

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to MauiFlamenco)

here´s an article on how to do simple bolt on necks on steelstrings. It could be adapted to Spanish guitars and resetting the neck will be easy:

http://www.liutaiomottola.com/construction/Bolton.htm

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2013 15:48:20

Sean

Posts: 672
Joined: Jan. 20 2011
From: Canada

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to MauiFlamenco)

I've used a variation on Ethan's theme using cork; it came in handy when experimenting with different body shapes and sizes. Cutting out a new cork template is easier then making another solera. As Ethan pointed out the doming comes out smooth because of the stiffness around the perimeter. When making flat tops I use a solera made specifically for that, it has both a slight dish and a dome to it.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 11 2013 16:38:10

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to El Burdo)

quote:

You are doming up to the top harmonic bar - would this method be OK from the lower bar do you think?

Also, are you using 18mm mdf? You don't need any further reinforcement?

I am doming from the lower harmonic down. Oh, I see, I said confusing things about this above. Well, you see how I route it. But I consider it domed below the lower bar because the fan braces are curving up and down while the lower bar is curving side to side. From the upper bar to the lower bar it goes from flat to slightly curved side to side. I think if the solera were not routed at all above the lower bar, then you could not use the solera to glue on the lower bar with the go-bar deck and if you glued it on another way then the soundboard would not lie snugly on the solera.

Good question about the MDF. Yes it is 18 mm. Extra reinforcement is highly necessary when gluing on the back. I clamp the solera on top of a very rigid straight board on my rigid straight workbench. If you don't do this, then your neck angles will be inconsistent.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 12 2013 21:09:37

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Thanks Ethan. I've got some of those steel man-clamps and I now know what to do with them.

At the moment I can't see what prevents you from using the go bars to glue the lhb if in fact it's not curved at all. Unless the gradation from the doming hasn't disappeared enough at the bar and a straight harmonic bar would deform it?

I'll probably do what you have done as I want to build with the minimum of stress everywhere other than the fan bracing and stress at the lhb might not contribute positively to the overall sound of the top. Having said that we're talking fractions of mms too. I'm trying to be precise, but not precious!

Thanks again.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Feb. 12 2013 22:14:15

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Hi Ethan

I am copying your solera method and am just about to glue the fan braces. I has just struck me, now that it is in my hands, that the order in which you glue things might have a bearing on the eventual curveture of the top. I have glued the top harmonic bar and soundhole supports but what's next?

If I glue the braces they are likely, but not certain, to all be flat to the base of the solera at their top, and only curve upwards as they reach the bottom of the guitar, from the bridge - is this correct?

I'm assuming that the lower harmonic bar is not glued under tension but simply lain across the top and glued to the board - with uncomfortably, the minimum of pressure - maybe a poor joint.

However, if the LHB IS glued first, then there will potentially be a different curveture introduced for the braces to start off with as they will definitely be flat against the base of the solera at the top (near the LHB)

So, braces first, or lower harmonic bar first? Or does it not make any difference?

There is another problem in that the through-back screwed clamp now pulls the top down to the base of the bottomed out solera as well. Should that be in and under pressure before braces and lower harmonic bar are glued in. If it's not used, or used weakly, it can hardly hold the top to the solera base.

None of this would have arisen of course if the carved portion of the solera began at the LHB rather than the UHB.

Sorry there are so many points but I like the idea at the beginning, now I'm not sure if I'm doin' it right!

Thanks, again.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2013 17:19:19

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to El Burdo)

Hi Ethan again

I've just had a run through, and it's obvious that if the braces are put under pressure without the LHB it makes no difference! The LHB can go on afterwards. And the screw clamp thing through the soundhole can go in as well.

Cheers.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2013 18:42:00

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to El Burdo)

Hi, Jeff.
I always glue the fan braces on first and carve them before gluing on the harmonic bars, because otherwise I find the harmonic bars are in the way of carving the fan braces (I include in "fan braces" a similarly dimensioned bar that I glue above the upper harmonic bar to strengthen the areas beside the fingerboard so they won't get cracked when bumped). I do prefer to then glue both harmonic bars on using go bars. One thing I have noticed is that the plantilla changes a bit due to the doming, since I don't use an exterior mold any more.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2013 19:35:29

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Thanks Ethan.

There is one other thing... I routed out the base of the solera to some undetermined depth and then layered up a little mound at the middle of the bridge area to the depth I wanted (therefore, the dome) - like yours but much smaller. That means that the top end of the braces, and the LHB will be bottomed at that indeterminate level, and only towards the end piece of the top will it be at the correct depth i.e. where the mound-thing is, and the n curved up to ground zero on the normal surface of the solera. That seems a little serendipitous to me!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2013 19:55:39

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to El Burdo)

The fan braces take their curvature from the depth that you have carved (or built up) into the solera. But the lower harmonic bar has the curve carved onto it before it is glued on--it is not bent like the fan braces are but cut to shape. So as long as it makes good contact when you are gluing it down it doesn't matter what's under the soundboard there.

The curvature of the fan braces is determined by where I routed (and built up) and where I didn't route on the solera, including the top ends of the fan braces. I guess a lot of it is serendipitous, but it works consistently once the solera is made.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2013 21:37:39

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Yes, the lower harmonic bar will be carved now.

I don't see any raised section on your solera where the tops of the fan braces go, I assume you routed out the whole area to the same depth and built it up in the area near the bridge, though you're obviously using an enormous bridge there

The only thing I'm interested in now, as I've glued them in, is that the top end of the braces will be higher than the lower end, as they touched the bottom of the carved out section. I guess when the neck is on, the depth of fingerboard will be more critical as the bottom of the rosette area will be higher than the rest.

Thanks for your help, I'm looking forward to seeing the results.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 5 2013 22:17:37

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to El Burdo)

The top ends of the fan braces are at the bottom edge of the lower, curved, harmonic bar. The curvature of that harmonic bar determines how far above the edges of the sides the soundboard will be at each fan brace upper end. It is not really as serendipitous as I was willing to admit in my last post.

I suppose the curvature of the bar has to be small enough to fit inside the routed depth of the solera (when it is lined with the soundboard).

Good luck. I think you will be surprised how it all works out in the end.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 6 2013 17:31:36

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Hi Ethan one more time...

I'm just about to use your solera method for my new Barbero 'type' guitar as I like the natural symmetricality of it. I think I understand the method barring one small thing...

- the fan braces will be glued on to a soundboard that is being pulled onto the base of the solera by the clamp that passes through the soundhole. That so far, is to an arbitrary depth that is built up at the bridge to a known value so the bridge will be at the proper measurable point of curveture. i.e. 2mm, say. The top of the braces may be at a lower (looking down onto the underside of the s/board as in the solera) point than they are at the bridge, depending on the initial routing depth, but so far so good.

I can see that when the clamp which holds the soundboard to the solera base (which I will naturally put in upside down...) is removed the soundboard will take up its 'at rest' curveture. At this point, by gluing the top to the (curved) Lower Harmonic Bar it will take up the curveture designed into the LHB. So, more control at the base of the soundhole.

But...that doesn't happen does it? The clamp has to be kept in place to hold the soundboard in place for subsequent work, attaching it to the sides etc. So, really, the LHB has to be carved to fit the curve governed by the depth of the routing of the solera.The only way the LHB can be shaped to a different curveture is if the clamp attaching the s/board to the solera is loosened. Is that right?

In the end, I'm going to do it anyway but if there is a secret technique that I'm missing, I'd like to know about it now.

Thanks.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2013 21:11:49

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to El Burdo)

Hi, Burdo.

I appreciate the way you are trying to understand all the details of this. Maybe I never really did and just kept adjusting things until I got it the way I wanted it.

Somehow I once decided to make the depth of the routed out part of the solera 1/8". There were times when I used a different depth and I think in fact I have shimmed it up so it is shallower now (less doming). The depth at the bridge (shims) is the only one (only depth of the routed area) that counts because with the edges of the soundboard up on the unrouted part, no part of the soundboard could ever be pressed down lower than the bridge area, due to the stiffness of the soundboard. (Oh, I see your concern about above the bridge area, but the shim extends considerably up and the waist acts as the top of the belly--and I intentionally place the middle of three gobars on each fan brace right in the bridge area when gluing on fan braces.)

A long time ago I made a template for the curve of the lower harmonic bar following a method given in Natelson's and Cumpiano's book, which went something like this: Take a piece of flexible steel bar with maybe 3/16" square cross section and about the length of the lower harmonic bar. Put a brad in a piece of plywood topped with paper (the paper is on the plywood) at the center of the bar on your side of it. Pull the bar so that the ends of the bar move 1/16" towards you, leaving the center stopped by the brad. Put brads at the ends of the bar on the side away from you so it holds that curve. Trace that curve onto the paper. That is the curve for the lower harmonic bar.

I am always able to glue the lower harmonic bar to the soundboard with only gobars (maybe because the soundboard is being bent/suspended in a similar manner to the way the steel bar was). I don't use that clamp that is secured through the soundhole while I brace it; it would be in the way. I just use a little masking tape at the top and bottom of the soundboard to hold it in place (See photo above). The gobars that I use for the fan braces do a much better job of pushing the soundboard down to meet the shimmed area of the solera. Later, after the soundboard is braced, that clamp through the soundhole is helpful for keeping the soundboard in place and its edges as low as possible while the sides and endblock are attached to it.

If you made the lower harmonic bar so it had a curve made by placing those outer brads >1/8" from the center one, I think you would have a problem gluing it to the soundboard on the solera with a 1/8" depth of routed area. The curve does have to fit the curves that can be formed by pressing the soundboard into the routed out area of the solera.

I hope this helps. Please let me know if I can tell you anything else.

_____________________________

Ethan Deutsch
www.edluthier.com
www.facebook.com/ethandeutschguitars
www.youtube.com/marioamayaflamenco
I always have flamenco guitars available for sale.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2013 2:06:36

El Burdo

Posts: 632
Joined: Sep. 8 2011

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to constructordeguitarras)

Thanks for that Ethan. I might be overthinking this as I don't have the experience to generalise but the last time I did it, I got pretty good results in spite of the conceptual problems I had/have. The curve on the finished guitar looks very pretty.

I'll follow your method and not attach the soundhole clamp this time I think when attaching braces and bars. That was the source of my doubt - in that the soundhole would be bottomed out on the solera base, but the bridge would be higher, to me. I'll also make the shim larger too, as you can see mine was much smaller. When it comes to attaching sides etc, I'll re-introduce the clamp and just see how it is and go from there.

The little holes by the way are for the dowling rod locators in my mould sides, the slots for my home-made violin clamps. (The large hole for when I had to gauge out the bolt...). No idea if this is 'correct' but it seems to work.

Thanks again.

[Some time later: Just realised that the LHB will now have a compound curve due to its diagonal positioning. Well, it would be the same with the traditional bowl shape I guess. More worry.]

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2013 8:03:17

constructordeguitarras

Posts: 1677
Joined: Jan. 29 2012
From: Seattle, Washington, USA

RE: Neck Angle (in reply to El Burdo)

You're welcome, Burdo.

I see the small shim in the bridge area in your photo, and why you were concerned about the belly of the guitar bulging higher between the bridge and soundhole with that arrangement. It is a cosmetic concern, but on the other hand it might be a good thing structurally, since that area is being forced the other way by string tension. I have seen guitars that have collapsed there.

Yes, the soundboard takes on a compound curve--also called doming--even if the LHB has a simple curve, and whether it is straight across or diagonal. I think that's the objective....

By the way, my soundhole clamp looks like this (which is why I was wondering how you could brace with yours in place; it is notched to press equally at the harmonic bars and at the bridge area):